Episode 113
E113: Work Less, Grow More: Jill James' Blueprint for a Self-Sustaining Business
What if the biggest thing holding your business back… is you?
In this episode of Scaling Expertise, I sit down with Jill James, founder of The Jill James, a fractional COO firm that helps expert founders scale without burning out or staying stuck in operator mode. Jill built her firm by asking one powerful question: “How can I help people do the work they love without being buried in admin?”
We dig deep into the invisible costs of overwork, the identity shift from doer to leader, and the moment Jill realized she needed to break her own rules to scale. If you’re feeling like your business can’t run without you, this episode is your wake-up call.
Jill shares hard-earned wisdom from scaling businesses to $10M+ and offers actionable ways to reclaim your time, build operational clarity, and let go of control—without compromising your vision.
Key Takeaways:
- Founders can be the bottleneck. If your business can’t function without you, it’s not scalable.
- Don’t sell your time—sell your thinking. Experts grow when they stop doing and start designing systems.
- Scaling isn’t about doing more—it’s about doing less, better. Create space so the business can operate without you.
- You don’t need to be a “visionary.” You just need to be clear about where you want to go.
- Resist the "fixer" urge. Let your team solve problems so they can grow into their roles.
- Fractional leadership. This can help expert founders transition out of operator mode with structure and sanity.
Jill is a featured author in The Wisdom Collection: Stories That Transform How We Live, Connect, and Lead—an anthology of powerful insights from business leaders who’ve built, failed, and figured things out the hard way so you don’t have to. Each chapter is practical, quick to read, and full of hard-won wisdom.
The book launches June 24 and will be available for just $1.99 during its first 24–48 hours.
Want the launch link or more details? Check out Jill’s announcement post on LinkedIn.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
🔗 Check out Jill’s firm: The Jill James
📬 Get her insights: Subscribe to the newsletter
🤝 Connect via Beehiiv
More About Our Guest:
Jill James is CEO & Founder of The Jill James. As a recent client summed up, she is what would happen “if you could hire Sallie Krawchek, Dany Garcia, and Mackenzie Scott to run your company.” Jill started her career in New York City as an investment banking analyst with J. P. Morgan and personal wealth planner with AXA Financial (now Equitable). She moved to tech start-ups and held nearly every non-programming job in early stage companies, including product, marketing, sales, and C-level leadership. She used these experiences to found The Jill James in 2015, and now partners with self-funded founders to grow and run purpose-aligned companies.
At the University of Chicago, she earned a BA with honors in Political Science from The College and an MBA in entrepreneurship, strategy, and marketing from Booth School of Business. Originally from Greenwood, Wisconsin, Jill lives in Los Angeles with her kiddo and their very squeaky guinea pigs. She writes a weekly Beehiiv newsletter for owner/operators of small businesses. Learn more at thejilljames.com, including a video introduction and our most recent newsletters and blog posts.
Connect with Jill James:
Charity: https://www.wearebgc.org/
Connect with Erin to learn how to Turn Your Expertise into Scalable Recurring Revenue.
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/
Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos
Music credit: Paphos by Mountaineer
A Team Dklutr production
Transcript
Hello everyone.
Speaker:Welcome to this week's Scaling Expertise,
Speaker:where we talk to experts who have scaled
Speaker:their expertise and also have some tips
Speaker:about how you can scale your expertise.
Speaker:I'm very excited for my guest this week.
Speaker:The Jill James, I love that.
Speaker:Who is a business consultant who helps
Speaker:her, founders go from founder to CEO.
Speaker:So welcome Jill, so much.
Speaker:Thank you, Erin.
Speaker:Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker:I'm very excited to have you here today.
Speaker:you talk about is so applicable to
Speaker:this audience, but before we dive
Speaker:in, would you introduce yourself?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:So I'm Jill James, as you mentioned,
Speaker:my company is called the Jill
Speaker:James, not gonna get lost there.
Speaker:so my focus is kinda in three areas.
Speaker:I'm a business manager, I'm
Speaker:an operator, and I also have a
Speaker:background in wealth management.
Speaker:so that makes it a little bit unique
Speaker:in that, I mostly work with self-funded
Speaker:people and, whole different set
Speaker:of, Tools that we have when you
Speaker:are not having venture investors.
Speaker:So that's really, an area that I've
Speaker:chosen to focus in to help people who
Speaker:wanna self-fund their businesses and
Speaker:grow them to the right size for them.
Speaker:So I think our conversation today is
Speaker:gonna be very applicable to your audience.
Speaker:Absolutely it is.
Speaker:And I'm gonna jump right in with what
Speaker:you mentioned there about your target
Speaker:audience, about them being founders
Speaker:that aren't gonna take VC funds.
Speaker:And we're gonna talk about scaling,
Speaker:we're gonna talk about intellectual
Speaker:property, but I'd like to just start
Speaker:with how the misperception generally.
Speaker:That when we talk about scaling,
Speaker:we're talking about VC funding
Speaker:and we're talking about software.
Speaker:We're talking about these things
Speaker:that we read about in magazines
Speaker:as opposed to the things that
Speaker:we do every day in our business.
Speaker:Have you found that kind of
Speaker:general misperception when
Speaker:you're talking to people?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:in my working background, I come
Speaker:from investment banking, wealth
Speaker:management, and venture backed startups.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And you can see I am not in that world.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So it's.
Speaker:What can we take from that world?
Speaker:But if we follow that playbook, and
Speaker:that is a lot of what you see in
Speaker:the press, that is a lot of what you
Speaker:see on social media is the get big
Speaker:fast playbook or the assumption that
Speaker:there is unlimited capital or you've
Speaker:just been handed a chunk of money.
Speaker:And you can go try some stuff out
Speaker:and figure out how it works before
Speaker:you have to sell anything to anybody.
Speaker:that isn't the real world
Speaker:for 98% of businesses.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, you know, as much as we look
Speaker:at, we hear about these venture
Speaker:capital businesses and it's sexy
Speaker:to say, oh, they got 1.2 million
Speaker:in funding, or they got mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, 50 million in
Speaker:funding, whatever it is.
Speaker:sometimes that's just to figure
Speaker:out what are we gonna sell?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And
Speaker:that isn't the reality for 98% of us.
Speaker:And I think in particular, if you are.
Speaker:a non-traditional founder, or you
Speaker:didn't go to a certain set of 10
Speaker:or 12 schools where you met the
Speaker:people who are gonna fund you.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:you are going to start your business with
Speaker:money that you earn by selling things, and
Speaker:then you're gonna earn the right to borrow
Speaker:money from other people or from banks
Speaker:mm-hmm.
Speaker:To accelerate the growth of your business.
Speaker:It is a very different playbook and I
Speaker:think, what I am seeing is more people
Speaker:are evolving to, I want to keep control.
Speaker:Of how this business grows and I wanna
Speaker:do it at a pace that's right for me.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And not what somebody else dictates.
Speaker:And so when you choose that path to
Speaker:be self-funded, we have to be very
Speaker:intentional, especially from about.
Speaker:250 to $500,000 up to about 5 million.
Speaker:we have to be extremely intentional
Speaker:in how we step through that time
Speaker:to help you grow, without falling
Speaker:into some of the traps that are
Speaker:gonna start to come into your world.
Speaker:Around seven figures, where lots of
Speaker:people start to say, oh, I can help you.
Speaker:Now you made it to seven figures.
Speaker:You're in the big leagues.
Speaker:Well, let's get you on
Speaker:this different playbook.
Speaker:the foundation that it takes to build
Speaker:a self-funded business and to set a
Speaker:playbook for yourself is really what we
Speaker:work on with founders in my business.
Speaker:Thank you for that.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So having set that framework,
Speaker:let's go back a little bit.
Speaker:You okay.
Speaker:Mentioned you came
Speaker:from, the venture world.
Speaker:How did you make that transition
Speaker:to where you are today working
Speaker:with this population of clients?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That is a good question.
Speaker:So for a long time, being in, I think
Speaker:I worked at seven different venture
Speaker:backed startups over my career,
Speaker:and been through lots of exits.
Speaker:And so I was always looking
Speaker:for what is that big idea?
Speaker:what is the idea that
Speaker:would get me venture?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And
Speaker:I had a lot of other ideas.
Speaker:That I didn't follow because they
Speaker:would not have qualified for venture
Speaker:and they were probably all really
Speaker:legitimately good businesses where
Speaker:I would've made a lot of money.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But I did not understand
Speaker:how that worked yet.
Speaker:I understood the get big fast model.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That was business school.
Speaker:That was all the businesses I worked in.
Speaker:That was the goal.
Speaker:So when it finally came down
Speaker:to it, I ended up leaving.
Speaker:I was the COO of a venture
Speaker:backed tech startup.
Speaker:And I was seven months pregnant there
Speaker:was a conversation about maternity
Speaker:leave and it did not go well.
Speaker:And so it was about
Speaker:no
Speaker:leave.
Speaker:Maybe it was, it was about no leave.
Speaker:It was about no leave.
Speaker:So I waddled my little self out of there.
Speaker:I took a minute to get organized and
Speaker:I had had a number of people, I had
Speaker:partnered with more, Founders who
Speaker:had come from a place of knowing how
Speaker:to sell, having a good idea about, a
Speaker:community or a business that they could,
Speaker:establish, but no operational expertise
Speaker:in how to set up and run a business.
Speaker:So I had, self-funded founders who had
Speaker:seen me do that, and they had left the
Speaker:door open of, if you ever wanna do this.
Speaker:Fractionally or maybe would take
Speaker:a side job where you're not all
Speaker:consumed with building somebody
Speaker:else's business, I would hire you.
Speaker:So I called a couple of those people
Speaker:and I said, this is the situation,
Speaker:and I'm gonna be having a baby.
Speaker:But you know, until then.
Speaker:We can start something and
Speaker:then we can pick it up again.
Speaker:And they said, any help you could
Speaker:give me, I would just so appreciate
Speaker:having someone look over my shoulder.
Speaker:Help me out with this,
Speaker:and whatever we can do.
Speaker:And I really appreciated that
Speaker:because the first couple of years
Speaker:in my business I've worked very
Speaker:flexibly, more like a fractional COO.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I think this is.
Speaker:Part of the process of especially
Speaker:an expertise business, is you're
Speaker:gonna try out a bunch of stuff.
Speaker:I tried to work with
Speaker:different kinds of people.
Speaker:I worked on an hourly basis.
Speaker:You know, I just kind of
Speaker:figured out like, what is this?
Speaker:What are people asking me for?
Speaker:You know, that was almost my investment
Speaker:in finding my product market fit.
Speaker:in the evolution of that, about two
Speaker:years in, I saw an opportunity with
Speaker:lots of women who needed flexibility.
Speaker:Who are establishing businesses because
Speaker:of that often around caregiving.
Speaker:And so I redesigned what I was doing
Speaker:to make it a little bit more package
Speaker:driven, knowing those women were probably
Speaker:not going to get venture just given
Speaker:the numbers and the kinds of businesses
Speaker:they were establishing moved more in
Speaker:a direction around, how do I work with
Speaker:self-funded founders and what does that
Speaker:mean and what's my unique expertise?
Speaker:That I can bring to that area.
Speaker:Like what have I learned and
Speaker:the people around me, how can
Speaker:they help these people as well?
Speaker:so that was really the evolution.
Speaker:This was 10 years ago, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:My son is nine and a half.
Speaker:It was almost this time, 10 years
Speaker:ago that this conversation happened.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:10 years later, I have a very defined,
Speaker:this is who we are, this is what
Speaker:we do, this is who we're for, and
Speaker:these are the reasons that we do it.
Speaker:All of that is very well developed at
Speaker:this point, but I went through a phase
Speaker:of experimentation initially where I
Speaker:just got paid to show up and mm-hmm.
Speaker:Do my old job as you know, my business.
Speaker:And that's a perfectly
Speaker:legitimate way to start.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing that
Speaker:because so many of us, you know,
Speaker:there's so much information now.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it is really easy to get
Speaker:caught up in all the different, way
Speaker:offers and ladders and all these.
Speaker:Things, and I have
Speaker:absolutely suffered from it.
Speaker:I'm, post corporate who mm-hmm.
Speaker:now works with a different population and
Speaker:it has taken, it is, I'm still evolving.
Speaker:Frankly, I'm, I'm not 10 years out
Speaker:working with this group of people.
Speaker:learning who your best client
Speaker:is, the best way to help them.
Speaker:Our expertise can be used in lots
Speaker:of different ways, but you know,
Speaker:the more we work with people,
Speaker:the more we hear their pains.
Speaker:The more we start to speak their
Speaker:language, the more it makes sense.
Speaker:Like we can start to drill down on
Speaker:the best way to help them, and that
Speaker:you're probably not gonna just.
Speaker:Come straight out of, this corporate
Speaker:for most of us, and go straight
Speaker:into the final product, so to speak.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's a great point that,
Speaker:there is going to be an evolution in
Speaker:your entrepreneurial journey even if
Speaker:you're a product-based business mm-hmm.
Speaker:The first idea that you have.
Speaker:If you're very lucky, it
Speaker:will be the successful one.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But in most cases, there's a pivot,
Speaker:there's some amount of learning,
Speaker:there's a change in the market.
Speaker:And so we have to continue to look
Speaker:for the opportunity and move toward
Speaker:it as we learn more about, you know,
Speaker:ourselves and what our capabilities
Speaker:are and, who wants to work with us.
Speaker:Now when you think, of course,
Speaker:this is a scaling expertise Yes.
Speaker:Uh, podcast.
Speaker:So, a lot of people have a very narrow
Speaker:definition of scaling as being mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, selling books or courses
Speaker:or software, things like that.
Speaker:But what does scaling mean
Speaker:to you and your clients?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So scaling in the self-funded
Speaker:world is a very intentional act.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's about milestones and it's
Speaker:about knowing what are those
Speaker:points of investment and the
Speaker:next place we're going to land.
Speaker:So scaling often as you start
Speaker:as a self-funded business owner,
Speaker:there's the problem of where is
Speaker:the money gonna come from, right?
Speaker:So we need to be intentional of
Speaker:looking at where are we going next?
Speaker:How much money is it gonna take?
Speaker:What are we gonna have to sell?
Speaker:who else do we need on the staff?
Speaker:What other resources do we need?
Speaker:And sometimes that means there's gonna
Speaker:be a dip where we need to move forward
Speaker:and we don't have the revenue yet.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, where are we gonna get that capital?
Speaker:Is it, from a bank loan?
Speaker:Is it from a line of credit?
Speaker:Is it a seven a loan?
Speaker:Learning that world of places that you
Speaker:can borrow for growth, that you know
Speaker:you can pay back because you're moving
Speaker:through a point in time and not stuck
Speaker:in, I don't know how to get out of this.
Speaker:Let me borrow some money.
Speaker:it's meant to accelerate you.
Speaker:So I think that is, the thinking
Speaker:on scaling is not how fast
Speaker:can we get, how big, but.
Speaker:What's the next iteration of
Speaker:this business where we can be
Speaker:profitable at this size and deliver?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And how long is that gonna take?
Speaker:How quickly are we
Speaker:gonna move through this?
Speaker:Because what I see is when you
Speaker:don't know what that next point
Speaker:of profitability is going to be.
Speaker:You get stuck in a trough.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Where
Speaker:you are having to make extra
Speaker:investments in operating expenses in
Speaker:people that you can't pay for yet.
Speaker:And you meant to move through that
Speaker:in three to six months, and all of a
Speaker:sudden it becomes two years and the
Speaker:debt becomes unsustainable, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And then you get really stuck.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So you have to have a plan for
Speaker:what is the next milestone.
Speaker:What do we need to do to get there
Speaker:what's gonna be the uncomfortable stuff
Speaker:that we have to do in the meantime?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, to get us through this phase.
Speaker:then you can be there and say, I like this
Speaker:size of business and this is great for me.
Speaker:I love it here.
Speaker:Or you can be like.
Speaker:That wasn't so hard.
Speaker:I think I wanna go for the next one,
Speaker:and then we need to look ahead and
Speaker:say, not just based on the revenue
Speaker:number that you wanna be at, but what
Speaker:is the right size of your business at
Speaker:the next iteration where we hire the
Speaker:people, we have the profitability, you
Speaker:get paid what you wanna get paid, you
Speaker:keep the culture that you wanna keep.
Speaker:What's that next point?
Speaker:Okay, let's move toward that.
Speaker:What's, how long is this
Speaker:next phase gonna take?
Speaker:But I think it's the
Speaker:stepping stone approach.
Speaker:Making sure we're just moving
Speaker:through an investment phase to a next
Speaker:point of sustainable profitability.
Speaker:That's the way that we scale
Speaker:a self-funded business.
Speaker:You know, I think that even with the
Speaker:expert, certainly one who's relatively
Speaker:new in their business and they're not
Speaker:even thinking in terms of profitability,
Speaker:they're thinking in terms of matching
Speaker:their old salary and I'll say, you know.
Speaker:When I first started, being self-employed,
Speaker:I was not thinking about profitability.
Speaker:It was literally like, how much
Speaker:do I need to make to pay my bills?
Speaker:It was not about, you know,
Speaker:what does it really cost to me
Speaker:to generate this much revenue?
Speaker:and so there is a like kind of a,
Speaker:a foundational misunderstanding
Speaker:or lack of understanding, I think
Speaker:for some, experts about just that,
Speaker:about profits as opposed to just.
Speaker:Revenue.
Speaker:So Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's a great point.
Speaker:There is definitely a transitional moment
Speaker:when you're that expert solopreneur.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:To moving into, I'm going to
Speaker:run a scaled business now.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And other humans are involved, whether
Speaker:they are employees or contractors or
Speaker:other businesses that you work with.
Speaker:How do I go from how I do it myself?
Speaker:Self.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And to take most of the money
Speaker:and put it in my bank account.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And just be tax smart about that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And how do I set things up so other
Speaker:people can replicate what I do mm-hmm.
Speaker:At this level of quality
Speaker:that I wanna sustain.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because people still need to,
Speaker:you know, still mostly me, right?
Speaker:And so how do I bring in the right people
Speaker:and then how much is that gonna cost?
Speaker:I think that that is a point where.
Speaker:We really have to think
Speaker:through what you charge.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And how many clients you need, or
Speaker:how many sales you need, and what
Speaker:that next investment is gonna be.
Speaker:Because bringing on people is a big leap.
Speaker:It is expensive.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They come with a lot of rules.
Speaker:I'm in California.
Speaker:Ah, yes, you had one part-time employee,
Speaker:you better have a retirement plan.
Speaker:You better be thinking about
Speaker:all of your compliance, right?
Speaker:that is that one human being
Speaker:for more than 10 hours a week.
Speaker:We have to do that.
Speaker:So, you know, there are other
Speaker:places where it's not that, really
Speaker:do have all of these other layers
Speaker:of operating and administrative
Speaker:responsibility once you start to scale.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And do you want your expertise to
Speaker:become, I wanna get really good at.
Speaker:operating a business.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or I wanna get really good at
Speaker:going and finding customers
Speaker:and telling them my story
Speaker:mm-hmm.
Speaker:And aiming my business in that direction.
Speaker:And I think that's one of the
Speaker:challenges of people get really
Speaker:bogged down at that next phase of.
Speaker:I don't know how to do any of this stuff.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's really hard, and I keep
Speaker:getting letters and they're scary
Speaker:and I don't wanna like, and now I'm
Speaker:spending time on, on hold, trying to
Speaker:figure out what's going on and like,
Speaker:who do I need to solve this problem?
Speaker:the sales stop, you stop selling, you
Speaker:stop focusing forward and you stop
Speaker:innovating and you stop trying stuff.
Speaker:that is one of the big pitfalls
Speaker:of going from a single expert.
Speaker:Into a scaled business setting mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is, we rise to the place where the
Speaker:administrative stuff overwhelms us.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And then who do you get
Speaker:to help you with that?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:How do you get good at that a lot
Speaker:faster.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm a huge, Proponent of division
Speaker:of labor, there's something I
Speaker:don't even wanna get good at.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Like for me to go from, the, uh, what
Speaker:is it, the zone of genius, go, yes.
Speaker:Not even adequate to decent would be
Speaker:like, that gap is, for some things
Speaker:is huge for me versus going from
Speaker:good to great, you know, which is
Speaker:where I'm trying to spend my time.
Speaker:So you mentioned, having a
Speaker:scalable, sustainable business.
Speaker:And from my perspective, you
Speaker:can't do that without developing
Speaker:some intellectual property.
Speaker:Not necessarily software books or courses,
Speaker:but you know, making sure we're capturing
Speaker:our expertise putting it in a form that
Speaker:it can be replicated by other people.
Speaker:You know, as founders, we are the most
Speaker:expensive resource in our business,
Speaker:so how do we have less expensive
Speaker:resources deliver some or all of that.
Speaker:Value to our clients.
Speaker:And so I get too many questions
Speaker:about like, I'm worried about people
Speaker:stealing my intellectual property and.
Speaker:one of the things that you do
Speaker:is you have a ask me anything.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Where you let people come and you
Speaker:give away your, expertise for free.
Speaker:some people and I do a lot of that
Speaker:as well, and people are like, why you
Speaker:give so much away, but where do you see
Speaker:the benefit of sharing your expertise?
Speaker:well, most of the things that I know
Speaker:you will eventually learn, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I was a proud business auntie earlier this
Speaker:year as one of my clients got on stage, in
Speaker:front of a group of other women and said
Speaker:things that I know I said to her, mm-hmm.
Speaker:She said them to these,
Speaker:bigger group of women.
Speaker:And I was just like, yes.
Speaker:Pass on that message.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:We all can get better at this.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I think, I come from a place
Speaker:where innovation is the ip.
Speaker:Creating an organization that will be
Speaker:curious and continue to learn, continue
Speaker:to try new things continue to really
Speaker:move ahead to new opportunities and
Speaker:being smart about what we need to
Speaker:protect in that and what is protectable,
Speaker:Because innovation in and
Speaker:of itself is a discipline.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is
Speaker:not protectable.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:The product of your innovation
Speaker:might be protectable.
Speaker:The question is like, is it relevant
Speaker:for a long time, if it takes
Speaker:several years to get a trademark,
Speaker:or it takes, utility patent, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is that.
Speaker:A useful investment for you?
Speaker:Is that something that's the
Speaker:product of your innovation mm-hmm.
Speaker:That you need for a long time?
Speaker:And
Speaker:so a lot of what we're doing in
Speaker:our intellectual property is really
Speaker:that special sauce of how do we
Speaker:make our business ours, What are
Speaker:the operating procedures we follow?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:How do we think about who
Speaker:we bring onto our team?
Speaker:Other people can't replicate that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And I think also that
Speaker:curiosity, did it move forward?
Speaker:Most organizations are not that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So you know that aspect of
Speaker:we will continue to evolve.
Speaker:Versus, you know, often people
Speaker:with intellectual property think,
Speaker:I've got my thing now I'm gonna
Speaker:milk it for the next 75 years.
Speaker:And that might be true as you capture some
Speaker:of these things, put copyright on them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:There are things that, you know, might
Speaker:live well beyond you where your heirs
Speaker:can continue to get money from them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And understanding what those
Speaker:things are are really important.
Speaker:and where those fall in.
Speaker:But I think sometimes people get.
Speaker:Too attached to, I protected this
Speaker:thing so that nobody else can use it.
Speaker:And it's really the defense of that,
Speaker:that they haven't thought through.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like, do you wanna become an organization?
Speaker:That is defending a copyright
Speaker:or defending a trademark.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or do you wanna be this
Speaker:thing in the world?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:so I think that's the kind
Speaker:of the balance of you have to
Speaker:understand what intellectual
Speaker:property will and won't do for you.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I think one of the things that I do with
Speaker:my clients is we look at insurances.
Speaker:if intellectual property
Speaker:is important is mm-hmm.
Speaker:How do we form a legal
Speaker:defense fund mm-hmm.
Speaker:Using
Speaker:insurance.
Speaker:That
Speaker:gives us the right to say, not only are
Speaker:we gonna write that cease and desist, but
Speaker:when you think you've, you know, scared us
Speaker:with a big lawyer, we have a bigger lawyer
Speaker:and we're gonna write a nastier letter.
Speaker:' cause we have a legal defense
Speaker:fund that you didn't know we had.
Speaker:I went through this with a client
Speaker:a few years ago where, you know,
Speaker:there's like a major manufacturer
Speaker:that thought they would scare her off.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And she.
Speaker:It was like, I have insurance for this.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I'm getting a good lawyer.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And went ahead and like, wrote
Speaker:back the letter and they were
Speaker:like, oh, oh, she's for real.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I think there are things like that not
Speaker:just the intellectual property, but the
Speaker:defense of intellectual property mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is a thing as small business owners, that
Speaker:there are tools that we can use mm-hmm.
Speaker:To make us run with
Speaker:against bigger companies.
Speaker:And I think that's a big thing
Speaker:to think about if you are
Speaker:gonna be an IP driven business.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I love that, and I will, people
Speaker:probably forget this about me, but
Speaker:the, my brand name Think Beyond
Speaker:IP was about kind of not just.
Speaker:copyrights, trademark patents, it was
Speaker:about all kind of intellectual capitals
Speaker:I called it, you know, which it is
Speaker:called, but which nobody wanted to hear
Speaker:me talk about, which is yeah, what my
Speaker:evolution was like, okay, nobody really
Speaker:wants to talk about intellectual capital.
Speaker:but it's exactly, of course, I didn't
Speaker:put it the way you put it, but about.
Speaker:Culture, innovation, all those things.
Speaker:Insurance, there's a whole, ecosystem
Speaker:of how we create a business that,
Speaker:is differentiated, that people wanna
Speaker:work in, that clients wanna work with.
Speaker:It's not just about, what is
Speaker:filed in a copyright office.
Speaker:and those things are all.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So important.
Speaker:So thank you for putting it that way.
Speaker:I feel I feel better about,
Speaker:I'm so glad to hear that.
Speaker:I feel so much better.
Speaker:So tell me how, your clients
Speaker:know, Hey, I need to call Jill.
Speaker:Like, what's happening
Speaker:in their businesses?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:so often with my clients, like you
Speaker:ask me about like why I do so much
Speaker:stuff for free and I consider like
Speaker:I want to be Mackenzie Scott level.
Speaker:Giving Right.
Speaker:And not keeping what I have, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And I want lots of
Speaker:people to be successful.
Speaker:So my business model, what I've
Speaker:settled on for my own growth
Speaker:is more of a freemium model.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Lots of people are on my newsletter.
Speaker:Lots of people come to my free stuff.
Speaker:We work with 10 or 12 clients a year.
Speaker:And a lot of those clients
Speaker:stay on for multiple years.
Speaker:So really, when it comes to
Speaker:new clients, we're taking on
Speaker:four to six new clients a year.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Until
Speaker:they phase through and hire,
Speaker:permanent people mm-hmm.
Speaker:if they get that big to take these
Speaker:on permanent jobs, all of mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, four or five, six
Speaker:things we're doing for that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I think the point that people end up
Speaker:calling me is they either say, Hey, I've
Speaker:been running this business for a while.
Speaker:I have an idea of like how to take it
Speaker:to the next level, but I need someone to
Speaker:help me think through what is that right?
Speaker:Like what are my options?
Speaker:How could I do it And then how do
Speaker:I stay true to me while I do that?
Speaker:What are the centering principles that
Speaker:matter that we're building this business
Speaker:around, what are the forms the business
Speaker:could take that don't trade off who I am?
Speaker:What matters to me getting paid, right?
Speaker:Because none of us can go to zero.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:We gotta get paid while
Speaker:we build these things.
Speaker:And when I get to the other
Speaker:side, is it still a business?
Speaker:I'm gonna be happy running.
Speaker:is it still a thing?
Speaker:Does it become somebody else's
Speaker:thing or is it my thing?
Speaker:And so I think when you're having
Speaker:thoughts like that's the moment to
Speaker:call me as a thought partner and
Speaker:a strategist of what could it be?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Let's talk about what it could be.
Speaker:and that's like kind of bringing in
Speaker:the structures and, you know, different
Speaker:capital models and things like that.
Speaker:And that's where I draw a
Speaker:lot on my venture background.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And also what I know about
Speaker:money management of like, how
Speaker:would we make that happen?
Speaker:The other piece that
Speaker:people call me for is.
Speaker:All I'm doing now is admin, Like I
Speaker:really wanna get back to, focusing
Speaker:on the, the growth of my business,
Speaker:selling things, talking to customers,
Speaker:running my team, and I'm so bogged down
Speaker:in all this other stuff and I don't
Speaker:even know the right questions to ask.
Speaker:And also.
Speaker:I know I'm getting these giant tax bills.
Speaker:I know they're more, I
Speaker:know I could be smarter.
Speaker:I know I could give more
Speaker:benefits to my people.
Speaker:I tend to work with very generous founders
Speaker:who do more than the law requires, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:They wanna share all the
Speaker:rising tide lifts, all boats.
Speaker:That's the attitude.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, how could I do that?
Speaker:What's good for me and
Speaker:what's good for them?
Speaker:So, you know, that's very often of
Speaker:how do we fix the running it part of
Speaker:the business so that you are doing
Speaker:the running it part that you want.
Speaker:And we take all that stuff that, you
Speaker:know, when you say something like,
Speaker:Hey, I'd like to implement this in the
Speaker:business and I just see 11 to 15 things
Speaker:we're gonna need to do to do that.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You don't have to go through the trial
Speaker:and error of what are those things.
Speaker:We make a checklist, we step through them,
Speaker:we prioritize them, and we might, you
Speaker:know, in many cases, just do them for you.
Speaker:So I think that part is like an
Speaker:operating partner, an experienced
Speaker:operator in so many different
Speaker:areas of running, small business.
Speaker:And when I say small, like.
Speaker:You know, that's up to
Speaker:like $15 million, right?
Speaker:I'm just talking about a hundred
Speaker:thousand dollars businesses here.
Speaker:There's a wide range of small business.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But I think that's, the point of when
Speaker:the operating of the business has
Speaker:gotten overwhelming for you, but it's
Speaker:still cost prohibitive to bring in a
Speaker:really experienced operating partner.
Speaker:That's the other time to call me.
Speaker:That's fantastic.
Speaker:So speaking of how you work with
Speaker:your clients, is there anything
Speaker:new and exciting coming up in your
Speaker:business that you'd like to share?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I'm really investing in my newsletter
Speaker:and my community around that.
Speaker:something that's free.
Speaker:We have lots of resources, I don't want
Speaker:anyone to fail in starting a business
Speaker:because they didn't file a piece of paper.
Speaker:Or they didn't know they
Speaker:had a deadline mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or they got behind on their taxes.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:All of those things that you just don't
Speaker:know when you first start a business.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, you know, the newsletter and
Speaker:the community around that, are free
Speaker:and it's, you know, just something
Speaker:that I want as many people as
Speaker:possible to get to the place where
Speaker:they could be become my clients.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like, that's all.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Uh, so we're really, you know,
Speaker:focused in on like, what else
Speaker:can we do for that community?
Speaker:Of self-funded small business owners
Speaker:to help them get to that point.
Speaker:and I think on the other side of the
Speaker:business, I'm really leaning more into,
Speaker:some of the wealth management aspects of,
Speaker:you know, that's kind of a hidden aspect.
Speaker:I was a registered investment
Speaker:advisor, for several years.
Speaker:And so like I've been through all
Speaker:the training on, personal wealth.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Uh, and that's part of it be coming
Speaker:from investment being as well.
Speaker:when you're in a pass through entity,
Speaker:when you're an S corp. When you're an LLC.
Speaker:The opportunities of how
Speaker:to compensate yourself.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And what your world are look very
Speaker:different than when you have an investor
Speaker:who said you take a salary mm-hmm.
Speaker:And you're gonna work
Speaker:for a long time mm-hmm.
Speaker:Until you get paid out.
Speaker:I think the piece of like,
Speaker:especially in the flux of the current
Speaker:administration, I. How can we not be
Speaker:afraid and operate in a smart way?
Speaker:And that additional piece of,
Speaker:you know, your responsibilities
Speaker:as a business owner mm-hmm.
Speaker:But also your opportunities.
Speaker:That's a new layer.
Speaker:I think that's really, more people are
Speaker:asking about in our operating work.
Speaker:Ah, well, I will say I'm going
Speaker:through that right now, so that
Speaker:is definitely hitting home for me.
Speaker:So, very interesting.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:And you answered my last question,
Speaker:which is first steps for people to get
Speaker:going on this journey, but signing up
Speaker:for your newsletter and getting access
Speaker:to, all of the, generous information
Speaker:that you share, I think is fantastic.
Speaker:We'll make sure we have links
Speaker:to everything in the show notes.
Speaker:Where else can people find you, Jill?
Speaker:So my website is the Jill James.
Speaker:If, you wanna join the newsletter,
Speaker:it's the jill james.com/newsletter.
Speaker:I also have a booking link on my website.
Speaker:I know people are a little hesitant
Speaker:to use it, but I'll talk to
Speaker:anybody for 20 minutes and mm-hmm.
Speaker:And brainstorm with you.
Speaker:So, you know, feel welcome to use
Speaker:that if you know you've heard some
Speaker:things here that you wanna talk about.
Speaker:I'm on LinkedIn Threads Blue Sky.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:And Instagram, as, the Jill James.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:the company is, and then my
Speaker:personal LinkedIn is Jill d James.
Speaker:I'm curious about your use
Speaker:of Instagram for what you do.
Speaker:Like, do you find your
Speaker:clients there or have?
Speaker:Do you use Instagram?
Speaker:Instagram for me is more of
Speaker:a credibility, uh mm-hmm.
Speaker:Step, I talk to a lot of people of like.
Speaker:Various ages.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And one of their checks for, especially
Speaker:for some of the more creator driven
Speaker:businesses that I work with, is
Speaker:they go to my Instagram page first.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And they wanna see that I'm legit.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And that I've made an effort.
Speaker:So we don't do a lot of original content.
Speaker:Like we repurpose a lot of the newsletter
Speaker:content and just repackage it, with
Speaker:graphics for Instagram, or I'll make
Speaker:short videos, or we'll take an a MA clip.
Speaker:but it is an important.
Speaker:Credibility.
Speaker:I treat it like a billboard.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like it's a live billboard for me.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Of when you pass by.
Speaker:Is there something useful there
Speaker:and do you know how to contact me?
Speaker:So that's really, that's
Speaker:the role for Instagram.
Speaker:you're right, it's not driving mm-hmm.
Speaker:Business directly.
Speaker:But I do hear a lot of people say,
Speaker:Hey, you know what, I really, I
Speaker:found you because you put something
Speaker:interesting on Instagram and
Speaker:I wanted know more about that.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:That is why I haven't used, what could
Speaker:I do, that would be catchy enough
Speaker:for Instagram, which I feel like
Speaker:needs like kind of another level of
Speaker:creativity than say LinkedIn and so
Speaker:yeah, I've been thinking about that one.
Speaker:And then, do you use TikTok or.
Speaker:I don't use TikTok.
Speaker:I have all the security concerns about
Speaker:that and I have from the beginning.
Speaker:so yes, I've had many people over
Speaker:the years say, Hey, this is new.
Speaker:You could be the blank of TikTok.
Speaker:And I was just, you know,
Speaker:I've had things like that.
Speaker:I've, my business has not been
Speaker:on Facebook and we've been off.
Speaker:What X since 2017.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think this is part of, you
Speaker:know, my centering principles is if
Speaker:the only way my business can make it
Speaker:is by being on platforms that I don't
Speaker:wanna be on, then I'm okay if I fail.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:That's a great way to look at it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, this has been a
Speaker:wonderful conversation.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Jill, for generously
Speaker:sharing your wisdom with the audience.
Speaker:And, to everyone, please, make
Speaker:sure you get on Jill's, email
Speaker:newsletter list and, 'cause.
Speaker:Of information shared.
Speaker:And thank you again.
Speaker:yeah, hopefully we'll do it again soon.
Speaker:Thank you, Erin.
Speaker:I would love that.
Speaker:Thanks for having me.
Speaker:I.
