Episode 114
E114: Designing Your Signature Method for Scalability with Jason Van Orden
What if your most valuable asset isn’t your time, but your unique way of thinking?
In this episode of Scaling Expertise, I chat with business strategist and OG podcaster Jason Van Orden to talk about building a business that scales beyond your hours and your inbox.
Jason has been turning ideas into scalable assets since launching his first podcast in 2005 (yes, really). Today, he helps consultants and coaches package their knowledge into branded methods and systems that create real leverage—and real impact. We talk about why your signature method is more than just marketing—it’s your filter, framework, and freedom. How to detach your business from your presence and turn your ideas into repeatable assets. What traps to avoid when you serve too broadly, and how to position yourself to attract premium clients who buy into your method, not just your minutes.
If you’ve ever wondered how to turn your expertise into intellectual property that can scale—without losing your voice or burning out—this one’s for you.
Key Takeaways:
- Create a Signature Method: Your method isn’t just a framework—it’s a strategic filter that helps you stay focused and aligned.
- Detach Value from Time: To scale, you must shift from selling access to you, to selling results through a system.
- Define Who You Serve Best: Narrowing your ideal client and solution makes growth simpler, not smaller.
- Systematize Your IP: Organizing your knowledge into processes allows for more impact with less burnout.
- Your Voice Matters: Even if your approach uses common tools, your perspective and values make it unique—and that’s worth branding.
Resources Mentioned in the Episode:
🎁 Free Worksheet: Signature Method Framework
📩 Join Jason’s newsletter (via website)
More About Our Guest:
Jason helps coaches and consultants grow their businesses by creating offers that scale without overloading their time and energy. Since 2004, Jason has worked with over 10,000 entrepreneurs and created more than 60 online courses and programs. In 2005, he launched the first-ever internet marketing podcast, Internet Business Mastery, which spent a decade as a top ten business podcast.
Connect with Jason Van Orden:
Charity: Girls Who Code
Connect with Erin to learn how to Turn Your Expertise into Scalable Recurring Revenue.
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/
Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos
Music credit: Paphos by Mountaineer
A Team Dklutr production
Transcript
Hello everyone.
Speaker:Welcome to this week's edition of
Speaker:Scaling Expertise, where we talk
Speaker:to experts who have scaled their
Speaker:expertise and also can give you
Speaker:tips about how you can scale yours.
Speaker:So this week I'm very excited
Speaker:for my guest, Jason Van Orden.
Speaker:Welcome Jason.
Speaker:Hi, you're in.
Speaker:So good to be here.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, we talk about
Speaker:a lot of the same things.
Speaker:We want to help experts, maximize
Speaker:the volume of their expertise.
Speaker:I think this gonna be
Speaker:a great conversation.
Speaker:Lots of good nuggets for
Speaker:everyone, and frankly, since
Speaker:I'm, I. Always in the, process of
Speaker:trying to maximize my expertise.
Speaker:You're the perfect person
Speaker:for me to talk to as well.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:So I'll, I'll be, trying to get
Speaker:some free advice at the same time
Speaker:that we have this conversation.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:Let's do it.
Speaker:know, one of the things I
Speaker:noticed about you is that you
Speaker:launched a podcast in 2005.
Speaker:Is this a true.
Speaker:Is this?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, it was.
Speaker:I launched a couple of podcasts.
Speaker:In fact, I launched three podcasts in 2005
Speaker:because I was so curious and fascinated.
Speaker:Now, the short of the story is that one
Speaker:of them, took off unexpectedly and became
Speaker:a top 10 business show within a couple
Speaker:of years, and, became my primary business
Speaker:when that was not at all what I expected.
Speaker:It was just a friend and I.
Speaker:Getting on and talking about our internet
Speaker:businesses and how we were trying to carve
Speaker:our own path as entrepreneurs, former
Speaker:employees, and I guess it resonated.
Speaker:that was a huge turning point
Speaker:in my entrepreneurial journey
Speaker:was, gaining that audience.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of podcasts
Speaker:as a way to get the word out and grow
Speaker:an audience and connect with people.
Speaker:And, don't have an active
Speaker:podcast right now, but I Sure.
Speaker:Like going on other people's podcasts.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:And when I think about 2005, I'm like, did
Speaker:I even know there were podcasts in 2005?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I
Speaker:don't think I did.
Speaker:Well, the joke that I say is that
Speaker:sometimes when I first found out
Speaker:about podcasting at the beginning
Speaker:of 2005, I searched for it and
Speaker:Google, I'm like, what is this word?
Speaker:And Google tried to correct me
Speaker:because it was like, do you mean fly?
Speaker:You know, Google used to say, do you mean
Speaker:like, you mean fly casting or, because
Speaker:it didn't know what podcasting was yet.
Speaker:Um, oh, that's crazy.
Speaker:Very different world now though.
Speaker:A hundred percent.
Speaker:I mean, you know, there's so many things.
Speaker:Frankly, as a, I call myself kind of
Speaker:a Luddite regarding using technology.
Speaker:I'm a big fan, just
Speaker:figuring out how to use it.
Speaker:for something like, podcasting in
Speaker:the early days, like I. Right now,
Speaker:frankly, I have a plug and play kind
Speaker:of podcast process where all I do
Speaker:is show up here and talk to the nice
Speaker:people, and then somebody else takes
Speaker:it from there and, figure that out.
Speaker:That's perfect.
Speaker:We've got all the props.
Speaker:Me.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So Introduce yourself
Speaker:to the people, please.
Speaker:Oh, yeah, sure.
Speaker:So, I'm Jason Van Orden.
Speaker:I'm a business growth strategist.
Speaker:I work with consultants and coaches
Speaker:and other kinds of experts like that.
Speaker:mission simply put is to help.
Speaker:Smart people with really important,
Speaker:impactful ideas to reach more of
Speaker:the people that they are uniquely
Speaker:positioned to serve in the world.
Speaker:And speaking of podcasting, all the
Speaker:wonderful channels we have, like there's
Speaker:such a huge opportunity these days for.
Speaker:Experts, people with a message
Speaker:to reach their audience.
Speaker:And so, know, more specifically, I'm
Speaker:that strategist that helps them when
Speaker:they have reached a point where, like,
Speaker:what got me here is it is not what's
Speaker:gonna get me there, I don't think.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so I don't know what to shift.
Speaker:And so they need that second person, that
Speaker:outside perspective and experience to help
Speaker:them look at it and go, here's where you
Speaker:should focus to get where you want to go.
Speaker:But brass tacks, when it comes down to it,
Speaker:we're often looking at their messaging.
Speaker:Making their offers more scalable, which
Speaker:I'm sure as some will talk about mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, designing their signature
Speaker:method and things like that.
Speaker:what do they need to do to reach
Speaker:that bigger audience and deliver
Speaker:value at scale without burning out
Speaker:and without losing their unique edge
Speaker:and their, you know, unique voice.
Speaker:That is fantastic.
Speaker:just on one more on the podcast,
Speaker:like how did you monetize that back?
Speaker:Like, were there ads or what was
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:it's so funny, like I was on a panel
Speaker:once at a conference in like 2008.
Speaker:By that time I was monetizing my
Speaker:podcast and I remember, you know,
Speaker:it was like five of us and they were
Speaker:going one by one through the panel.
Speaker:Like, how do you monetize a podcast?
Speaker:'cause that's what
Speaker:everyone wanted to know.
Speaker:And all of 'em were like, advertising,
Speaker:advertising, sponsors, advertising.
Speaker:And most of them had like
Speaker:ad networks and things.
Speaker:then it got to me I'm like, well.
Speaker:Actually, we monetize it indirectly
Speaker:through courses and coaching and mm-hmm.
Speaker:our products that we've packaged,
Speaker:our knowledge that we've
Speaker:packaged up in ways for people.
Speaker:And so the podcast of what brought
Speaker:people in and earned their trust and
Speaker:eventually they'd end up like on an
Speaker:email list or somewhere where we could.
Speaker:deliver value, but also
Speaker:promote our programs.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so we had a membership program and
Speaker:courses that we sold over those years.
Speaker:and I remember everybody looked
Speaker:at me funny on that panel, but I
Speaker:think it's one of the best ways
Speaker:to like monetize your podcast is
Speaker:it's kind of that indirect method.
Speaker:I mean, there's wonderful
Speaker:way, lots of wonderful ways,
Speaker:but that's how I did mm-hmm.
Speaker:Was, you know, it was an indirect
Speaker:way of bringing awareness
Speaker:to my, Coaching and courses.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of where
Speaker:people talk about, you know, write a book.
Speaker:you are not gonna make any money.
Speaker:And we might, you know, but more
Speaker:about how it gets you out there
Speaker:as a marketing tool, as a lead
Speaker:generator, even as a closer sometimes
Speaker:depending on, if it's good enough.
Speaker:and that brings us to the
Speaker:topic of intellectual property.
Speaker:I'm going a little bit outta order
Speaker:here because you started talking
Speaker:about this, but, I'm always afraid to
Speaker:use the term intellectual property.
Speaker:Because sometimes that shuts
Speaker:people down, but how do you think
Speaker:about like, creating that asset
Speaker:that people can help use to scale?
Speaker:Do you think about it in terms like
Speaker:directly as intellectual property,
Speaker:or do you just think about it as.
Speaker:A tool how do you look
Speaker:at it and talk about it?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean this is, it's a really
Speaker:good question because something we
Speaker:always have to think about is, are
Speaker:we using the right words to resonate
Speaker:with the people that we want to reach?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And intellectual property
Speaker:obviously is gonna bring certain
Speaker:connotations and things, and I
Speaker:do use that phrase, sometimes
Speaker:your IP or intellectual property.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:sometimes I'll refer to
Speaker:it often as body of work.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:is another thing that I'll use.
Speaker:And then more generally,
Speaker:sometimes I'm just like, you
Speaker:know, Hey, I'm here to help you.
Speaker:Package and communicate and deliver
Speaker:your unique knowledge in a way
Speaker:that's, you know, and so it's
Speaker:a little bit more like mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:speaking to exactly what they want to do.
Speaker:a phrase that I use a lot, that's
Speaker:not necessarily something that people
Speaker:right off the top of their heads are
Speaker:thinking about, but as soon as I bring
Speaker:it up seems to resonate, at least with
Speaker:the people that I am trying to speak
Speaker:with, is, you know, your signature
Speaker:method or your signature process, like
Speaker:your unique approach to guiding your
Speaker:ideal client from, know, where they're.
Speaker:At when they sign up to work with
Speaker:you through the challenges and
Speaker:milestones to get them to those
Speaker:outcomes that they want the most.
Speaker:And you know, we all have
Speaker:that unique approach.
Speaker:I mean, certainly we might borrow
Speaker:some of the same principles and best
Speaker:practices that other experts do.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But in the end, we do have a unique
Speaker:approach with our perspective and
Speaker:our values and our vision and how we.
Speaker:synthesize and present things.
Speaker:So I don't know.
Speaker:Those are some of the different
Speaker:ways I think about and refer to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:This idea of knowledge that
Speaker:can be turned into, an asset.
Speaker:But one of the fundamental building blocks
Speaker:is that idea of a signature process.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or signature method.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think that's so
Speaker:important because so many.
Speaker:Experts, consultants, know, they
Speaker:know how to sell their time.
Speaker:And they're thinking about this process to
Speaker:build a scalable business, and they really
Speaker:don't think that they have any assets.
Speaker:Only as that is their time and
Speaker:they're kind of starting from scratch.
Speaker:Like, what do I. Do, like, how do I even,
Speaker:you know, I was, talking to a group of
Speaker:people and it was a pretty generic group.
Speaker:Like it wasn't just experts.
Speaker:It and the question was like,
Speaker:how do I know I have expertise
Speaker:or what is a niche and, not.
Speaker:Questions for a lawyer, but
Speaker:you know, I I do my best.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But it was definitely about, who
Speaker:are you talking to all the time?
Speaker:what are their common problems?
Speaker:What are the common solutions?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:How do you steer people from getting
Speaker:out of the, okay, I just do what
Speaker:people need me to do to being
Speaker:proactive about, okay, this is what
Speaker:I do and this is how I make the.
Speaker:Impact.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah, and it's, I mean, one of the common
Speaker:frustrations that I'm trying to speak
Speaker:to, and I'm sure you are as well, is that
Speaker:People know that it's like, you
Speaker:know, there's so much more I
Speaker:could be doing with my ideas.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or they just wanna grow their income and
Speaker:help more people, but they're like, yeah,
Speaker:they've run into that ceiling and mm-hmm.
Speaker:They're maybe feeling stretched thin,
Speaker:burned out, and they're like, okay, this
Speaker:isn't sustainable the way I'm doing it.
Speaker:and so that's the moment where I come
Speaker:in and, one of the first principles
Speaker:to realize is something that I think
Speaker:you kind of touched on there, and
Speaker:it's like you need to detach the value
Speaker:from your time or even your presence.
Speaker:Hm, to your knowledge.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The intellectual property, whatever
Speaker:you want to call it, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So that, that's like principle number one.
Speaker:Principle number two, which often people
Speaker:don't think about, is that you need to
Speaker:organize it in a way that it can be, need
Speaker:to be able to deliver it more efficiently,
Speaker:or, if you're customizing every single
Speaker:solution that you provide, you're
Speaker:gonna be spreading yourself too thin.
Speaker:So that's where it's like.
Speaker:Actually, maybe principle too is like
Speaker:being very clear about here's the best
Speaker:people that I can help the most and here's
Speaker:that, signature way that I help them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And
Speaker:once you've, because some people are
Speaker:like, oh, I serve all these different
Speaker:audiences and all these different ways.
Speaker:And that can be very fulfilling,
Speaker:but it's also, you just have
Speaker:to accept the fact that.
Speaker:You also are spreading yourself very thin.
Speaker:So then if you're like,
Speaker:okay, I need to organize it.
Speaker:And the analogy I use is, you
Speaker:know, so often we might realize as
Speaker:entrepreneurs at some point we come
Speaker:to the, where it's like, okay, I
Speaker:can't wear all the hats anymore.
Speaker:I need to maybe hire assistance
Speaker:and I need to create systems and
Speaker:standard operating procedures or
Speaker:whatever lingo you want to use.
Speaker:and so we think about that in terms of
Speaker:the admin of our business, but then we
Speaker:don't apply that same principle to the.
Speaker:Knowledge or the product
Speaker:of our, of our business.
Speaker:So true as well.
Speaker:So that's like the third principle
Speaker:is like, it's absolutely important
Speaker:to have that systemization.
Speaker:And then the last principle I'd
Speaker:put in there is that, there's this.
Speaker:Very basic image I'll put up sometimes
Speaker:that, makes it click for people.
Speaker:And that is like, I'll show them no, I'll,
Speaker:I'll show their client on one side, know,
Speaker:as like a circle or square, whatever.
Speaker:And the outcome the client wants to get
Speaker:to on the other side of the diagram.
Speaker:then I put them the expert there in
Speaker:the middle and then said, most of
Speaker:you're selling yourselves this way.
Speaker:And so they sign up and they are
Speaker:expecting you to be on the phone.
Speaker:They are buying into you because
Speaker:you've sold as you, your time,
Speaker:your presence is what you've sold.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Now.
Speaker:Then I say, okay, I show a second diagram
Speaker:where they slide out of the way and their
Speaker:signature method shows up in the middle.
Speaker:And it's like when that's the thing
Speaker:that you've branded and put forward,
Speaker:that's what they are buying into.
Speaker:And therefore, yes, you might still
Speaker:be involved and they know that it
Speaker:came outta your mind and that they can
Speaker:trust it, but you've branded it as.
Speaker:That is the thing.
Speaker:That is gonna get you
Speaker:to where you want to go.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so over time, if there are team
Speaker:members who come in and facilitate part
Speaker:of the process, or eventually you're
Speaker:certifying people in your process or
Speaker:whatever model you wanna go with mm-hmm.
Speaker:You're
Speaker:able to, like, that's what people are
Speaker:okay with and expecting when they come in.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so all of those principles add
Speaker:up to like, hey, those are some
Speaker:of the key mindset and operational
Speaker:shifts that you need to make to
Speaker:have that business that has more.
Speaker:Capacity, more capacity to
Speaker:serve, more capacity to make
Speaker:money, whatever the case, may be.
Speaker:that's how think of it, making that
Speaker:shift, to a more scalable, knowledge
Speaker:based, expert based business.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You are literally just
Speaker:described my business, so Yeah,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like serve, and I learned that,
Speaker:I mean, the before differently.
Speaker:I mean before, not the after,
Speaker:just, yeah.
Speaker:But yeah, so about me,
Speaker:I mean, it is tough.
Speaker:I mean lawyers have a tough time.
Speaker:not selling themselves, this is what,
Speaker:these are my old clients and as opposed
Speaker:to selling transformations, and for
Speaker:me it's been a real challenge to.
Speaker:Break away from the temptation,
Speaker:especially, you know, you get
Speaker:referrals that are anywhere.
Speaker:like, oh, she's an IP lawyer.
Speaker:Referrals are all over the place, right?
Speaker:Mm. I don't do it all, so those are easy.
Speaker:Some I can do, but should I do it?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Uh, well, that person sent them, so, know,
Speaker:I wanna honor the referral, so I'll do it.
Speaker:And boy do I get all over the place.
Speaker:these are one-offs.
Speaker:There's no system, and
Speaker:that is a real frustration.
Speaker:And that's kind of where I am trying
Speaker:to, stick to what I want to, help people
Speaker:with, yeah, be able to say no to the
Speaker:things that I can do but shouldn't do.
Speaker:and have that kind of.
Speaker:Branded transformation as opposed to.
Speaker:Services for hire,
Speaker:And part of that is narrowing the scope
Speaker:of who you think of as your ideal clients.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And which problems you think of
Speaker:yourself as being best to solve.
Speaker:And I mm-hmm.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:That it's, it's really hard.
Speaker:For us sometimes to make that transition
Speaker:from, well, I don't wanna exclude
Speaker:anyone, I don't wanna leave anyone out.
Speaker:I don't wanna leave money on the table.
Speaker:I can totally do this.
Speaker:I could create value and when I help
Speaker:clients create a signature method,
Speaker:one of the surprising there's a whole
Speaker:stack of benefits that come out of
Speaker:it, and scalability is just one.
Speaker:But a mutual friend of ours,
Speaker:Erica Holt Hausen, I think that's
Speaker:actually how we met, and Yes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I helped her with her signature
Speaker:method and one of the.
Speaker:When I was talking to her, she
Speaker:said, you know, one of the things
Speaker:that I didn't expect is that it has
Speaker:become a strategic filter for me.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Meaning that now that clarified so
Speaker:well, like who I serve and how I
Speaker:do it, and what outcomes I deliver.
Speaker:That when opportunities come up,
Speaker:when ideas come up, when referrals
Speaker:come my way or whatever, I run it
Speaker:through like, does it fit this model?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And if not, then.
Speaker:I'm ready to send them elsewhere
Speaker:or give them an idea to run with
Speaker:or point them to whatever I can.
Speaker:but I get it, like that transition
Speaker:is hard to make and it's completely
Speaker:natural earlier on in our business
Speaker:as experts, whatever our model is
Speaker:to want to try d serving lots of,
Speaker:we shouldn't, we should like, Hey,
Speaker:where do I create the greatest value?
Speaker:Who do I enjoy working with most?
Speaker:Who do I have the best access to?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then at some point, I think
Speaker:it is important to, yeah, start.
Speaker:Shoring that in and narrowing that scope.
Speaker:and then it can really help with that.
Speaker:And it feels like a
Speaker:leap of faith sometimes.
Speaker:'cause you're like, okay, now I gotta
Speaker:go all in on that and hope it brings in
Speaker:enough leads and high enough, command
Speaker:high enough prices to make what I need.
Speaker:All all the things that
Speaker:we worry about, right?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But, um, so I get it.
Speaker:But that is a, critical shift to make.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I feel like I'm on the precipice of
Speaker:something, but I can't quite, yeah.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:do But, I'm getting there, you know, every
Speaker:time something comes in that's not the
Speaker:right fit and you're like, I will never
Speaker:do that again, so I might just be right.
Speaker:A process of elimination,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:I'm like, okay, I'm not doing that again.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:and that is some of it like
Speaker:process of elimination and
Speaker:like, oh, that wasn't good.
Speaker:So what are the filter criteria I can
Speaker:use in the future to get myself to say
Speaker:no or recognize it when it, it comes up?
Speaker:but I'll say, you know, from the
Speaker:outside, you've figured out how to
Speaker:deliver interesting and valuable ideas.
Speaker:I tune into your email newsletter
Speaker:in your live streams and stuff,
Speaker:so you've got that dialed in.
Speaker:But Yeah.
Speaker:Isn't it funny that then sometimes on
Speaker:the inside there's just still like,
Speaker:oh, I'm trying to, like, I'm so close.
Speaker:But what is that?
Speaker:Thing.
Speaker:I have no doubt that you'll figure it out.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:So, let's talk about your business.
Speaker:So we know you started back 2005
Speaker:with your podcast, but you've
Speaker:evolved to where you are today.
Speaker:Tell us about that evolution
Speaker:and how you have developed.
Speaker:Your signature method
Speaker:helping other people.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like their signature method.
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:I mean, speaking of trying a lot of
Speaker:things out, I mean, there've been so
Speaker:many breadcrumbs over my, like two
Speaker:decades of being an entrepreneur.
Speaker:We talked about how I got my start
Speaker:in podcasting, you know, that was a
Speaker:good fit for, had technical skills as
Speaker:a former programmer, and I had audio
Speaker:skills as a former musician, and I.
Speaker:have teaching skills in my
Speaker:DNA and background and right.
Speaker:And so it's like figuring out
Speaker:like where you create that best
Speaker:value and it's like mm-hmm.
Speaker:From podcasting and that
Speaker:business that took off for 10
Speaker:years, like that was wonderful.
Speaker:And I helped a lot of people.
Speaker:People wanted to get out of a job
Speaker:and start something meaningful, like
Speaker:make that shift and really ultimately
Speaker:figure out what they wanted in life.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then at some point, like that
Speaker:container for my strengths, my strengths
Speaker:of like, taking ideas and, organizing
Speaker:them, whether to teach them myself
Speaker:or help others do that on their own.
Speaker:I was like, okay, something needs to shift
Speaker:'cause this isn't doing it for me anymore.
Speaker:And so about 10 years ago I started
Speaker:doing a little bit more exploration.
Speaker:I went back into consulting to see
Speaker:where I created the best value and
Speaker:that's where I made a shift eventually
Speaker:to work with coaches and consultants.
Speaker:I wanted to apply all my knowledge
Speaker:and experience to, again, people with
Speaker:important ideas that needed to get
Speaker:them out there and move away from
Speaker:working with your beginners, which
Speaker:was fun, but I needed the challenge
Speaker:and I needed to get out of the like.
Speaker:You can make money online business.
Speaker:'cause then that's what
Speaker:it was turning into.
Speaker:It was so noisy.
Speaker:I'm like, I'm not gonna
Speaker:market in that anymore.
Speaker:I don't want to.
Speaker:So I guess, know, one of the
Speaker:points I'm making is like, yeah.
Speaker:I think we come in and out of
Speaker:that exploration at times too.
Speaker:And so, like, I've had a signature
Speaker:method for launching a business
Speaker:podcast and that's for a while I was a
Speaker:consultant that helped people do that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Oh 5, 0 6, 0 7, know, and then
Speaker:I've had signature method for.
Speaker:How to figure out what your
Speaker:business is when you've never
Speaker:started a business before, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Well, now I have signature methods
Speaker:for like, how do you organize
Speaker:your ip, your knowledge and
Speaker:how do you communicate it best?
Speaker:but inside of that, like, you know,
Speaker:the strengths are the through line.
Speaker:And whether we're like showing up as a
Speaker:lawyer who's got billable hours or as
Speaker:somebody with a podcast who I've learned
Speaker:over time that where I create really
Speaker:great value is I'm a good systems thinker.
Speaker:I'm good at helping people zoom in and
Speaker:zoom out when they need to pick the golden
Speaker:nuggets out of what they are creating to
Speaker:realize, no, this is one of the things
Speaker:you need to double down on and really
Speaker:bring forward and highlight, one of the
Speaker:things I'll say is sometimes, like my
Speaker:clients show up with this beautiful mess
Speaker:of assets and by that I mean like they
Speaker:might have written a book, you know, and
Speaker:they're proud of that book, and then like
Speaker:they do some speaking over here and their
Speaker:site has a bunch of content on it and
Speaker:they've got different opportunities and
Speaker:all this stuff, all this content, all this
Speaker:they just haven't figured out how to like
Speaker:really snap it together into like mm-hmm.
Speaker:This is the business model and
Speaker:approach to your career that's
Speaker:gonna take you where you want to.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Go.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so I like bringing that, order
Speaker:and That shine as much as it can.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so that's what's always
Speaker:been inside of, my approach.
Speaker:Whether my signature method is
Speaker:called this or that, or, is aimed
Speaker:at this audience or that audience.
Speaker:hopefully I'm kind of
Speaker:answering your question.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But that's one important thing, I think.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Just speaking of my journey
Speaker:and where I've come and mm-hmm.
Speaker:The, the most recent iteration,
Speaker:it's funny, it's like every
Speaker:decade is now with ai.
Speaker:It's kind of like when I found
Speaker:podcasting and dove into that.
Speaker:There's like a unique
Speaker:convergence right now.
Speaker:I think of my knowledge, a Venn
Speaker:diagram of everything I've been doing
Speaker:with clients for 20 years now, being
Speaker:able to infuse AI into that, both in
Speaker:serving my clients, but helping them.
Speaker:To leverage it responsibly.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Hopefully, ethically, there's
Speaker:lots for us to figure out, but
Speaker:also powerfully, again, to package
Speaker:and communicate and deliver Yeah.
Speaker:Their ideas at scale.
Speaker:And so that's where I'm headed next.
Speaker:And so my signature methods are adapting
Speaker:a bit now to like, bring in, AI as well.
Speaker:now we are converging there.
Speaker:I mean, as a copyright lawyer
Speaker:'cause I'm not all the other types
Speaker:of ip, I'm a copyright lawyer and
Speaker:with the issues involving using
Speaker:AI being copyright issues mm-hmm.
Speaker:It kind of pulled me in and it surprised,
Speaker:you know, again, I'm a proud Luddite,
Speaker:but I'm like, there's no light.
Speaker:When I first heard about ai.
Speaker:and it was in the context of doing
Speaker:a continuing legal education.
Speaker:I just needed some hours
Speaker:this popped up as available.
Speaker:I'll listen to this CLE about AI
Speaker:while I'm checking email, and I'm just
Speaker:listening just three years ago, I guess.
Speaker:and then they started talking about
Speaker:chat, GPT, and I can do this and that.
Speaker:I'm like, what?
Speaker:and then I dove in and then that was it.
Speaker:Originally, I'm like, well,
Speaker:it's changing so fast.
Speaker:How can I kind of stay ahead of it?
Speaker:Like I can't stay ahead of
Speaker:it, but I can stay ahead of.
Speaker:Everyone else, like, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You sure?
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Like, I'm not in it, but I can be
Speaker:the interpreter between, using AI and
Speaker:the legal issues regarding using ai.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:yeah, so that's been an
Speaker:interesting journey as well.
Speaker:And falling in love with AI, frankly.
Speaker:awesome.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:So you mentioned that, know, you didn't
Speaker:want to work with kind of the beginners as
Speaker:much anymore, or you're not working with
Speaker:them what stage of development are your
Speaker:clients typically when they come to you?
Speaker:I mean, I typically don't say like,
Speaker:oh, they have to have been in business
Speaker:for X amount of years or whatever.
Speaker:'cause like everyone's, different and,
Speaker:I've worked with people who are like
Speaker:recently outta corporate and going into
Speaker:consulting and like very quickly are in
Speaker:a place where I can absolutely help them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Given what they have to work with.
Speaker:So what I usually tell people is that
Speaker:the people that I can help best are.
Speaker:They already have a pretty good
Speaker:idea of who they serve best.
Speaker:I mean, there's always some cleanup.
Speaker:I mean, even people who have been doing
Speaker:business a long time, there's always
Speaker:some cleanup, but let's make sure
Speaker:we're really clear about who your ideal
Speaker:client is, what's going on in their
Speaker:mind and what language they're using.
Speaker:But you need to like, know how to
Speaker:deliver value and results to them.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like we all go through our growth period
Speaker:of like finding our expertise and figuring
Speaker:out how we can dependably deliver great
Speaker:results to the clients that we serve.
Speaker:But yeah, if you haven't crossed
Speaker:that bridge yet, then I could still
Speaker:help, but like, you know, I've chosen
Speaker:where I focus my efforts on, hey, you
Speaker:already know you deliver great value.
Speaker:You just know that, again, like the
Speaker:model needs to shift or you need
Speaker:to extract yourself from some parts
Speaker:and focus yourself more on others.
Speaker:And you're just not sure how to make that
Speaker:shift or what systems to put in place or
Speaker:what bottleneck is, needs to be removed.
Speaker:You're serving clients consistently,
Speaker:making some, some money.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:There's still maybe boom and
Speaker:bust cycles in your business
Speaker:like we all have going on.
Speaker:but you're at that precipice, that
Speaker:inflection point that, um, Maybe a
Speaker:transition or you just, you're feeling
Speaker:that ceiling And now you're like,
Speaker:okay, I need somebody to help shine
Speaker:a light on which direction to go now.
Speaker:And so that's, that's how I describe,
Speaker:it's a little harder sometimes if you like
Speaker:said in one sentence, who do you serve?
Speaker:You know, like experience coaches and
Speaker:consultants who are delivering great
Speaker:results to their, their clients, but
Speaker:want to do it at a bigger scale, I guess
Speaker:would be the short version of that.
Speaker:but that's how I think of it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know where I find trouble is, and this
Speaker:is from an IP perspective, is coaches who
Speaker:have a bunch of certifications and they're
Speaker:using a bunch of third party materials,
Speaker:and so they don't actually own anything.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker:How to help you create a protectable work,
Speaker:right.
Speaker:If you don't own anything, you know?
Speaker:And so how do you, like, do you come
Speaker:across that and how do you help them
Speaker:kind of create a signature method out
Speaker:of, a bunch of assessments that they got
Speaker:from, you know, the other places and,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:This is a really, Good question.
Speaker:And, a couple of things.
Speaker:I think there are different types of
Speaker:coaches and some will be happy to,
Speaker:go and certify in Donald Miller's
Speaker:story, brand system and just is gonna
Speaker:be really good at helping apply that
Speaker:to all kinds of, clients and they're
Speaker:happy to have learned that and just.
Speaker:Be a purveyor of that awesome system.
Speaker:And then I think there are some who just
Speaker:feel a little more driven to like, nah, I
Speaker:wanna like add something to my industry.
Speaker:I want to leave a legacy, or
Speaker:I want to, you know, whatever,
Speaker:you know is, is driving them.
Speaker:And so I think sort of naturally, I think.
Speaker:I tend to attract, at least the ones
Speaker:who approach to work me a little
Speaker:more the the latter and mm-hmm.
Speaker:And they are realizing, Hey, I've
Speaker:been doing this for a while and
Speaker:yes, I've synthesized and learned
Speaker:a lot, but I really have something
Speaker:unique to how I'm doing this now.
Speaker:Now, of course, I mean there's all
Speaker:kinds of tools that I'll refer to.
Speaker:I'll talk about, Dan Sullivan's unique
Speaker:ability, you know, from Strategic Coach.
Speaker:And that's an amazing, anyway,
Speaker:but when I'm suggesting that
Speaker:clients, I'm very much saying like.
Speaker:Hey, it's his thing and I recommend
Speaker:getting this book, or I'm gonna buy it
Speaker:for you and we're gonna gonna, I'll help
Speaker:you go through the process know, but a
Speaker:lot of what I'm helping them do is figure
Speaker:out what have they managed to synthesize
Speaker:from just what's best practices and.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I guess common knowledge
Speaker:maybe for a lack of better.
Speaker:and where the trick comes in is that
Speaker:sometimes people feel, well, there's
Speaker:nothing special about what I do.
Speaker:Like I think every expert like me
Speaker:knows that you need to do AB and
Speaker:C and avoid de and f or whatever.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:that might be true to a
Speaker:degree, but look like.
Speaker:you still again, have like a different,
Speaker:perspective approach, set of values.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:there are some people that I'm not the
Speaker:right fit to help them with marketing.
Speaker:'cause they just wanna be a lot more like
Speaker:go, go, go and like, whatever, you know?
Speaker:And, then there's people I
Speaker:attract 'cause they're like, ooh.
Speaker:Chase market's different.
Speaker:It doesn't feel so pushy.
Speaker:It it feels more organic.
Speaker:It feels more, mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, and so they like to
Speaker:come and learn marketing from me
Speaker:because that's how I want to market.
Speaker:So that's where like knowing who you serve
Speaker:and what they're looking for and what they
Speaker:value, and then packaging and delivering
Speaker:and communicating in a way that's not
Speaker:only relevant to what they need, but
Speaker:resonant in a way where they're like,
Speaker:you're the person that I want to help me.
Speaker:I don't want just to.
Speaker:Have a great, website and messaging.
Speaker:I want somebody who.
Speaker:Is like steeped in this
Speaker:philosophy of mm-hmm.
Speaker:Of doing those things.
Speaker:and so that's where I like to
Speaker:try to help pull out like what
Speaker:is unique about their voice.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:What are they doing that maybe others
Speaker:aren't doing, or how can we position it
Speaker:because there's something that they're
Speaker:saying that's not the common knowledge.
Speaker:They might not be the only one saying it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But it's not, you know, it hasn't
Speaker:become the common knowledge in
Speaker:their industry and they've got like.
Speaker:A contrarian view or like, Hey, this
Speaker:is, we really need to go in this
Speaker:direction 'cause it's not serving
Speaker:us anymore the way we used to do it.
Speaker:And that's exciting to help somebody Yes.
Speaker:Own that message and push it forward.
Speaker:that's in there if you are that
Speaker:type of coach that wants to go that
Speaker:direction and nothing wrong with
Speaker:being like, I've got my certifications
Speaker:and I've got my licenses and mm-hmm.
Speaker:I mean, I got started doing
Speaker:that kind of stuff too.
Speaker:Licensing other people's stuff so.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:Well, speaking of how you work, tell
Speaker:me how do you work with your clients?
Speaker:What is your preferred method
Speaker:of working with clients?
Speaker:Yeah, so, in terms of like the container
Speaker:that it takes, it's either I have,
Speaker:a group program and that's, Built
Speaker:to be very like directional towards
Speaker:getting, scaling and fixing their
Speaker:business model and optimizing it.
Speaker:And sometimes people, they'll be in
Speaker:that program for six months, sometimes
Speaker:two years, not because, you know, I've
Speaker:made them dependent on me because we
Speaker:just keep finding more things mm-hmm.
Speaker:That we can do, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And then I'll do a bit of one-on-one.
Speaker:Now I limit that because,
Speaker:I want to scale my impact.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I do like a limited amount of that.
Speaker:And you know, the cool thing is
Speaker:like whether you're in the group
Speaker:container or in this one-on-one
Speaker:extended or even a like, Hey, I
Speaker:just need this one thing done.
Speaker:Can I work with you for a month, Jason
Speaker:Container that I'm plucking out the
Speaker:piece of my model and the bits of
Speaker:my frameworks that are relevant to
Speaker:them, and I'm able to very quickly,
Speaker:cause I've got these modules, snap 'em
Speaker:together in a way that feels, structured
Speaker:but still, customized to mm-hmm.
Speaker:To them.
Speaker:So they feel like I, you know,
Speaker:we're hanging on a lattice work.
Speaker:Their vision, strengths,
Speaker:goals, and so forth.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and that's how I try to help my clients
Speaker:to think about their work as well.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:so I always say, when you come to work
Speaker:with me, you're getting an action plan.
Speaker:I. I'm helping you do that.
Speaker:Zoom in, zoom out, strategize, okay,
Speaker:here's the thing we need to focus
Speaker:on to get you where you want to go.
Speaker:Then I'm like, here are tools and
Speaker:templates because I've created
Speaker:these and refined them over years.
Speaker:This is my framework that's gonna help
Speaker:you do that thing we just identified.
Speaker:I. Whether that's a set of
Speaker:worksheets or a process, whatever.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And then support, and it's like you're
Speaker:on the phone with me or in these
Speaker:group calls or email access to get the
Speaker:guidance and feedback that you need.
Speaker:And that support piece varies depending
Speaker:on like, which container you've signed
Speaker:up for and how that's, you know, your
Speaker:budget and what you decided you need.
Speaker:But it's very easy for me to have
Speaker:those different containers because
Speaker:it's still all foundationally.
Speaker:built around how I have modularized
Speaker:my intellectual property, my
Speaker:ip, my expert, my expertise.
Speaker:That's fantastic.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:another thing that I'm struggling with,
Speaker:which is that I've had kind of pieces,
Speaker:you know, I have kind of a process to go
Speaker:through to get to the point where you have
Speaker:all your intellectual property protected.
Speaker:and licensed but I found
Speaker:ultimately that I needed to.
Speaker:Know that they owned and had the rights to
Speaker:everything that was part of that license.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so I'm like, I can't
Speaker:really do that part.
Speaker:Like to me, someone could do it.
Speaker:I can't do that part unless I know
Speaker:that you own everything and have the
Speaker:rights to license all this stuff.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And unless I, and so I'm
Speaker:like, I can't actually.
Speaker:Sell them that part without
Speaker:selling this other part.
Speaker:And so that's something I'm working on.
Speaker:There's like a certain
Speaker:degree of, discovery that
Speaker:you need to do to know that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That it's ethically can apply
Speaker:your signature process to
Speaker:what they're bringing in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That, that makes sense.
Speaker:And so that's where, you know, it's like,
Speaker:yeah, either you figure out the filters
Speaker:to filter people in and out, or a lot
Speaker:of times my clients will have some sort
Speaker:of assessment or intake or something on
Speaker:the front end that helps them to then.
Speaker:Either decide which container's the
Speaker:best one to put that person into.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or, know, formulate the path through
Speaker:their offer and system that is going
Speaker:to match or to tell 'em, it's like,
Speaker:Hey, you're not quite ready yet.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Here's what I'm seeing.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I recommend this and this and
Speaker:this, and then come back when
Speaker:you're ready for that next piece.
Speaker:And so, yeah, having, yeah.
Speaker:Intake assessment filters on the front
Speaker:end is an important piece that I'll also
Speaker:explore a lot with my clients for that.
Speaker:Very reason and many others as well.
Speaker:Yeah, not having the right
Speaker:intake has gotten me in trouble.
Speaker:A hundred percent.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All of us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think that's one of those that
Speaker:bites us and we're like, oh, I
Speaker:don't want that to happen again.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:that's where it comes in a lot.
Speaker:So tell everyone where they can
Speaker:find you and if there's something
Speaker:new and exciting, you wanna.
Speaker:Announce as well.
Speaker:I'd welcome that, but I'm sure
Speaker:people wanna follow up with you.
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:So, you can find me@jasonvanorden.com.
Speaker:I will admit that right now there's a
Speaker:bit of cobbler without the shoes where
Speaker:my site badly needs to be updated with my
Speaker:latest, like stuff that I'm focused on.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:the exciting thing is I am full force
Speaker:ahead with a research project that's
Speaker:basically asking the question of what do.
Speaker:Experts, coaches, consultants,
Speaker:need in order to leverage AI
Speaker:to deliver impact at scale.
Speaker:And so like, what are the
Speaker:things getting in their way?
Speaker:What are the things they need to know that
Speaker:they don't know that they need to know?
Speaker:And then what are the systems I can
Speaker:create to facilitate all of that?
Speaker:So I'm very excited about, and, one
Speaker:of the thing I'll mention if it's
Speaker:okay, I just have a, a free gift
Speaker:here that I can point people to.
Speaker:if you go to jason van
Speaker:method, all one word, signature method,
Speaker:what that'll do is it'll take you to.
Speaker:a paired down, but great to get you
Speaker:started, version of my Signature
Speaker:Method framework to at least get you
Speaker:starting to play around with organizing,
Speaker:and, giving a taste of that process.
Speaker:So, you know, you download this,
Speaker:there's a worksheet, give it about,
Speaker:30 minutes to an hour Have your
Speaker:time to really sit with your stuff
Speaker:it'll get you, to a first draft.
Speaker:Of course, we we want
Speaker:to like prove it out.
Speaker:There's lots of stuff we want to do
Speaker:to make sure you're really ready to
Speaker:leverage that, but it's a great place
Speaker:to start if anyone's thinking like,
Speaker:oh, maybe I have a signature method.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So, jason van orden.com/.
Speaker:Signature method, all one word.
Speaker:I will make sure that that URL
Speaker:is set up correctly as soon
Speaker:as we're done, talking here.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:And we'll make sure it is in the show
Speaker:notes that everyone can get access to that
Speaker:fantastic resource and connect with you.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Jason.
Speaker:This has been great conversation.
Speaker:Thank you for the free advice.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:my pleasure.
Speaker:Thanks for having me.
Speaker:I really appreciate it.
Speaker:It.
