Episode 46

E46: Making the Mindset Transition from Corporate with Betsy Jordyn

Many of my listeners have decided to leave their job in corporate America and go out on their own. In this episode of the Hourly to Exit Podcast, I interview Betsy Jordyn, a brilliant consultant who works with people moving from employee to entrepreneur, and she had some great advice to offer during our conversation.

Some of the highlights of the episode include:

  • How to rethink money by going from drawing a salary to generating income and profit
  • Investments vs. Expenses: a perspective that is critical to your business and to selling to your clients
  • The role of a coach or consultant calling for a purpose-driven business model
  • BONUS: We covered some great tips for getting past impostor syndrome

Betsy tells us that she isn’t planning her exit strategy, and we talked about how the same process she is using to scale her business can help when she gets to the point where she wants to sell the business. This is the heart of what I do at Think Beyond IP. If you are considering scaling or selling your business, contact me for a consultation about the steps you should take.

More About Our Guest:

Betsy Jordyn is a Brand Positioning Strategist that helps consulting and coaching business owners clarify their brand positioning and messaging, create a website presence that positions them as sought-after experts, land clients with ease and integrity, and take their place as thought leaders and influencers in their niche. Her mission is to help consultants and coaches monetize their best-at-strengths and authentic passions to make a bigger difference in the world.

Connect with Betsy Jordyn:

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Transcript
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Hello., ladies.

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Welcome to the Hourly to

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Exit podcast.

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I am so excited for today's guest,

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Betsy Jordan.

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Erin.

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I'm so happy to have you here today.

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Lots for us to talk about.

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But before we get started, can you

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introduce yourself

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to the audience?

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Sure.

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My name is Betsy Jordan.

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I am a business mentor and a

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brand messaging and positioning

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strategist for remarkable

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consultants and coaches and their

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unique strengths and experiences

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and passions.

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Very nice, very nice.

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So who is your typical client

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and how did you upon them?

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Did they choose you or did you

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choose them?

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So my ideal client is usually somebody

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who's either like one or two phases

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in their career.

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They're either at a corporate

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kind of job and they're like, okay,

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I've had enough.

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I've hit the top.

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I wonder What is this for?

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I wanna have control over my career in

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my life, and I have more significance,

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and I'm not sure how to navigate that.

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So that's one set of my clients and

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they know they wanna start a business

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that relates to their knowledge and

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their expertise.

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Like a consultant, coach, speaker

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kind of person.

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Or it's somebody who they built.

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The wrong business and it's not the

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business that they are loving and it's

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not the right one.

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I work with them and we use basically

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the same processes for both of them.

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I think they find me because of my

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content, which is how you and

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I got connected.

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Very,

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very nice.

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So I've heard, you reminded me of

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this term boomer preneur, but maybe

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that doesn't apply.

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Like we're people who had this

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whole career and now they wanna Do

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this consulting or things like that?

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Is that a term that, am I the only one

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who uses that term?

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I don't know if I would use that one.

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I use more like corporate refugee

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or somebody who's like a mid-career

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professional.

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Like there's other people like Marie

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Folio who's out there and I think

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there's a huge difference between

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somebody who's an entrepreneur

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and that's their first career.

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Mm-hmm.

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Versus what it takes for somebody

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who's mid-career, who's got, a certain

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amount of perk status in their

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job, in their.

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Corner office, their status.

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Everybody's expecting so much

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from them and for them to leave that

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kind of golden handcuff kind of

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situation mm-hmm.

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Into starting a business

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is completely different.

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And those are the people I really love

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serving the most.

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that is a shocker.

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As well as just the way are staffed

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has changed.

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Like when I started my career,

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everyone had.

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What was then as secretary, but then

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became an assistant.

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And then I remember, this is maybe 10

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years ago, I was working with a

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client and I'm like, well, you know, just

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have your assistant send it to me.

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He's like, and this was the c e o And

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he is like, I don't have an assistant.

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Like, cause everyone just, you know,

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kind of, and they just kind of do

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things differently, you know?

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Mm-hmm.

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And, so to stop having that, support

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and becoming an entrepreneur, that's

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gotta be quite the shock to the system.

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Well, that will actually feed

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into part of what we're gonna

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talk about today.

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I mean, there's many things that we

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could talk about, but that's corporate

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to entrepreneur transition.

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And in particular in the consulting

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space where we're experts, we're using

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our brains, we're gonna talk about

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profitability, I'll let you talk about

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what the differences are, but really

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about profitability.

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Because when we're in corporate and

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we think about, you know, okay, you have

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revenue, and then you got all these

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overhead pieces.

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rent and payroll and office supplies

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and vendors and maybe when we are

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solopreneurs, we.

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Don't have any of those things.

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So we think it's all profit, you know?

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and we're not really thinking about

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the big picture of making sure what

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we're doing really is profitable.

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Does it really make sense for us

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to do this versus going back to the

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corporate job.

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And so I'd love for you to start big

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picture about, what profit is versus

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things like income and revenue and

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how that applies the problems that

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you see among your, clients

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kind of wrapping their heads around

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these things.

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one of the biggest things I think

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when people are leaving a corporate

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job and starting a or any sort of

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job and starting a business is

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understanding that your relationship to

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money has changed.

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So when you're in a job, you're in a

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compensation model.

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what that means is I do work.

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And then I get paid for, I don't

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even have to get paid for it.

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I get paid.

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And I get compensated for

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the work that I do.

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And so it's a compensation model.

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And I think a lot of times when

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people leave that compensation model

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and they go into a business, they don't

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make that shift of saying, "Wait a

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minute, I have to create a business."

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And business is different.

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So business is about, I invest

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money first and then I get a return.

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And so that's like the first big shift

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like, any one of my clients were

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advising their clients or going

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to a company, they would say,

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"Well, you have to spend money

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to make money."

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Mm-hmm.

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But when they leave and they start their

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own business, they think, well, I don't

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need to spend money.

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I could just go out there and

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find clients.

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And I'm like, well, if you're gonna

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just go out there and find clients,

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you're actually recreating your job.

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In a business, and you're gonna wind

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up in that trading time for money

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trap because that's what you know.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that's what other people are.

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So we think, oh, okay, well I'm

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gonna go look for other busier

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consultants and take their carryover

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work, or I'm gonna sign up for this

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coaching form and they're gonna bring

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clients to me.

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you're still in a compensation model,

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so there's no profit potential in a

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compensation model.

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Because you don't have a business, you

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have to think about money completely

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different when you are starting

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a business.

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That's why it's important that you

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invest properly in a really

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great website.

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You get clear in your messaging,

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you figure out who you're going after,

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and then you figure out like what are

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different ways that you're going to

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provide products and services that

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are scalable?

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And so that first mindset is you

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have to go first.

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And it's interesting with, expert

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knowledge workers as I always use,

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the example of the hotdog cart.

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Because I did research one time

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around how much does it cost to

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set up a cop dog cart, and it was

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like something like $50,000 you have

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to invest to buy a hotdog cart, get

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it up and running, find your corner

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and all of that.

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People would get that like, I have

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to spend money on my hotdog cart.

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I have to spend money on hotdogs.

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I have to spend money on

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condiments in order to get sales.

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But when you're dealing with

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knowledge, it's like, well, I

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don't need to do that because I've

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been doing this for a long time.

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So it's the mindset.

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Is the first thing before we could

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even talk about the difference between

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profitability, trading, time for

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money, and all that kind of stuff.

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Thank you

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for that.

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Yes.

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Well, that's the danger of me

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trying to set up something without

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being the expert.

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So thank you for that.

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That is so important.

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I, have been a victim of exactly

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what you talked about and, some

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lawyers never leave that.

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Money, mindset.

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but it is something that I see again

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and again on the one hand, the ability

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to go straight from our corporate

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job to quickly, creating income, so

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we can keep paying the mortgage and

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things is one of the benefits of

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it, but also one of the traps of it,

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because you can get stuck there, right?

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you can't scale.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it's not sustainable.

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Mm-hmm.

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when you're in a job and you're going the

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job search process, you only have to

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find one job and you're kind of done.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, nobody wants to be

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perennially out of work constantly

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on that hustle.

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looking for the next gig and the next gig

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and the next gig.

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That's exhausting.

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Mm-hmm.

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And at some point, some of it's gonna

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say, well, forget it, I'm just gonna

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go leave and get a corporate job

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Because it is a lot easier.

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And the other thing that you do when you

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recreate that kind of role, like, I

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hate subcontracting.

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It's like, it makes me crazy because

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if you give control over how you set

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up work to somebody else, like you

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really don't have a business and you're

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not even really being a strategic

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partner or whoever you're helping.

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Mm-hmm.

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you do all of this where you're

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actually making less money.

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It may feel like you're making

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more money, but you're not, or

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you think you have more freedom.

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You're working the same amount

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of hours without any colleagues.

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really that are your colleagues.

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Mm-hmm.

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without any career opportunities.

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and without all of the other stuff.

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So it's like, it's the worst

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of all worlds.

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Yeah.

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From my perspective.

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Yeah.

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Other people might like it.

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If you like it, cool.

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Like, I don't judge you, it's awesome.

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But from my standpoint, I

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didn't leave my corporate job.

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I was a senior leader at Walt

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Disney World.

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I had a great career.

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I had many opportunities I

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could take in my career anywhere

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If I wanted that, I would've

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stayed there.

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But instead I wanted to have control

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and freedom and all those other things.

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Yeah, there

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is that illusion that will get

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control and freedom from going out on

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our own, right.

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But if we really think about, if we

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don't have some of the things you're

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gonna talk about in place, that we just

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have created a job without benefits and

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without add upside.

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So, all right.

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let's get to how you help clients make

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that mindset shift.

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well, the first things first is we

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really talk about like, what kind of

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business you really wanna start, and get

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clear that you're starting a business,

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you to me, the way I help my clients

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is it's more of an action learning

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kind of thing.

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It's not like I just sit there and

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say, all right, well your mindset's

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gonna shift.

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It's like, your mindset's gonna

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shift as we do certain things.

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Mm-hmm.

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as we clarify who your ideal

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client is.

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that's a starting point because then

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you're gonna get clear of like,

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oh, okay, I have a business that's

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supporting somebody specific rather than

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here's my expertise.

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Like, that's where the flip is, when

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you're looking for a job like the

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spotlight, it is on you and all of your

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expertise when you build a business,

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the spotlight's on your ideal client,

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for you when you were making this

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shift is you are a corporate person

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you had all this legal IP advice,

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but you decided I wanna help women

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experts, and there's a bigger why.

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So you get really clear on that

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and that starts creating that shift,

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And then I work with my clients

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through like, no, how they're gonna

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stand out in the marketplace and

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then we work on their website.

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When you have your website, that

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helps you start thinking about

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like, okay, I have to really work on.

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marketing system.

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And I have to start thinking about

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bigger picture, like what's my online

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platform that's just like a brochure

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kind of website.

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So the mindset changes, like I'm

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not a believer of mindset changing.

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I just sit there in isolation.

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My mindset changes, and then I could

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do actions.

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I believe that as you do actions with

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intentionality, here's my mindset

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gap, like if I have a money issue, we're

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gonna have an actual tangible thing.

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Like, okay, let's talk about

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your website.

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and how do you wanna set it up

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and what's the money you're gonna

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leave on the table?

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And we work on it from that

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standpoint.

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there's like the action learning

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kind of things.

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And then there's advice I might

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give along the way.

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Like number one, there's many ways

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that you could set up your business,

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but I think you need to have business

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money separate and personal money, a

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wall between the two so that you

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start thinking about the profitability

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of your business and thinking about

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like, I'm gonna get a salary out of it.

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and that's gonna go over here, but

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sometimes people kinda like lump

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it all together.

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Yes.

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Like I have, have a client who sent

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me a, a spreadsheet from a different

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form that she was working on,

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on how to figure out how much to

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charge different than weight that

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I would set it up.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they included like, here's all my

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personal expenses and here's all

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my other things and this is how

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much money I have to make.

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I'm like, no, your personal expenses

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are over there.

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you have to put a wall, like

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there's a wall between the two.

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Mm-hmm.

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So that you can look at your business

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profitability separately from

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here's my income.

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Well, let's stick into that cuz I

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do think people get really hung

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up on that.

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And, first decade of my business,

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freelancing everything that

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I collected from my clients was

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errands and that's how I paid the

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mortgage and sent the kid to school

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and that was it.

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And there wasn't, This business in

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the middle with me getting payroll.

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tell us about how do you work with your

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clients to, when you have someone like

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an Erin who just has their money come in

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and is not thinking about whether or

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not it's profitable, whether or not

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actually have a profitable business,

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do my offerings make sense?

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Is the way on building make sense?

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would I be better off just going

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back in house?

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what are the steps to, helping them

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think through

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that?

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First off, I would never suggest if

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somebody really feels like next

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step in their big calling is to be

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a business owner.

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Mm-hmm.

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I would never say you need to burn

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those bridges.

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the only way that you're gonna be

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successful over the long term is

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to be committed to being successful.

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Well over the long term.

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Mm-hmm.

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And you're never gonna figure it out

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right at the gate.

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So the first thing I would say to

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you is like, of course you approach

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it that way, no harm, no foul.

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the secret to your long term success

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is like you try some things out and you

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kind of pivot and you go, it's not a

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problem, if you're, depending on how

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you set things up.

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To, if you wanna have it mixed, like

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some people like to have it mixed and

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that is a way to do it, I believe,

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in the firewall.

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But the key would be is like I would

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be asking you how are you investing

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in your business and what kind of return

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are you looking at?

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And there's other ways that you would

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price your services.

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Like if you're not making enough money,

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From your services, like, well, we

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need to look at your products

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and services and how you're

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framing ' em up.

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are you setting up?

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a lot of coaches do this is they set

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up their business in this hourly

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type of thing.

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where it's like, okay, well I have

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my one hour package, that's a couple

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hundred dollars.

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I have my eight package, one where

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it breaks it down $150 a coaching

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session, and that kind of thing.

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Like, well, you're never gonna

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scale that one.

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Right.

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And that's not interesting.

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I would probably say, all right,

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Aaron, Let's talk about your ideal

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client and let's talk about what

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the problem that you're solving.

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Let's talk about who they're turning

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to, to solve those problems and where

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the gaps are.

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And let's frame up a very interesting

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signature program.

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Mm-hmm.

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That would have a variety of different

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elements that would be of more value.

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So it's like, we wanna look at it

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from that angle and we wanna look at

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like, well, what are your profit goals?

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So if you wanna make, let's say,

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a hundred thousand dollars a year

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and you think your average price per

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client is X and it's like, okay,

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so I need to create a $5,000 program.

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It's like, well, what would we

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need to include to make this a

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$5,000 program?

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It could include X number of

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coaching sessions.

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It can include a membership forum.

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It could include an online, Course

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it can include on-call access,

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which by the way is high value that

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people undervalue.

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Mm-hmm.

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And people don't do this “on-call

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trusted advisor” because they're

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worried that people are gonna take

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advantage of you

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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But it's high value.

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Like I could call you when I need

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to, maybe you include office

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hours or maybe you include live

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retreats, and all of that is $5,000.

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So, for example, I worked with a

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girl named Rachel.

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She's a dating coach.

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She was initially starting off with

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like, I'm gonna kind of do this, and

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it's like, no, let's create your program.

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and her program includes an upfront

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assessment, and a certain kickoff

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in-depth coaching session around

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X, Y, and Z.

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Then she has X number of

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coaching calls.

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Then she has the dating profile

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review included in the program, and

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then of course, adding in those

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special bonuses.

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And it's all about how you frame

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it, and that's a scalable offer.

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That's interesting.

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Now people are gonna be like, oh,

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okay, I'm willing to pay more because

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of the return.

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Okay.

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Got it.

Speaker:

And so when you use the term

Speaker:

investments, like what does that

Speaker:

mean specifically?

Speaker:

I mean, in coaching and, other types

Speaker:

of human resources.

Speaker:

Like what,

Speaker:

what does that mean?

Speaker:

Investment.

Speaker:

I think everything that you do for

Speaker:

your business, you need to think about

Speaker:

it as so, so you could look at the

Speaker:

profit equation and say there's revenue

Speaker:

minus expenses equals profit.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But when I think when you're a

Speaker:

business owner, there's some

Speaker:

things that are just like expenses

Speaker:

you might say.

Speaker:

It's like for example, I

Speaker:

use Cajabi as my platform.

Speaker:

And I could look at it as a straight

Speaker:

cost, or I think about like, well,

Speaker:

what does Cajabi offer that allows

Speaker:

me to scale?

Speaker:

So Cajabi is like a all-in-one

Speaker:

kind of platform.

Speaker:

So I get my website, I have my email

Speaker:

marketing, I have my landing pages,

Speaker:

I have my courses, and all of this is

Speaker:

in one place, So if I'm spending like

Speaker:

150 bucks a month on Cajabi, I'm spending

Speaker:

less if I were gonna do all of those

Speaker:

things separately.

Speaker:

But I'm also spending less time

Speaker:

because everything's all in one place.

Speaker:

But then I have all my tools that

Speaker:

are there, if I can master, like getting

Speaker:

into Cajabi allowed me to go from just

Speaker:

mentoring people to creating websites.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And to working on pipelines and

Speaker:

helping people with courses because

Speaker:

I learned how to do this myself.

Speaker:

So every time I get a bill from

Speaker:

Kajabi, every time I see it, every

Speaker:

month, I feel happy.

Speaker:

Like, yes.

Speaker:

because I know I'm investing.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Or you might invest in a virtual

Speaker:

assistant, you so, you think

Speaker:

about the time you might spend.

Speaker:

So here's an example with a

Speaker:

virtual assistant.

Speaker:

So I wound up, signing up

Speaker:

for, Working with different

Speaker:

organizations and if you think about

Speaker:

like how much they might charge so you

Speaker:

can get some VAs from other parts

Speaker:

of the world for like $9 an hour,

Speaker:

I don't know what the US prices are.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

so just do the math let's say you're

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gonna work on a P D F, like in Canva or

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something, it might take you 10 hours,

Speaker:

but if you think about it from your

Speaker:

salary standpoint and how much you're

Speaker:

worth per hour, this could be like

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a $10,000 P D F.

Speaker:

if you have a va, it's like way less.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So When you're a business owner,

Speaker:

you have to think about money

Speaker:

differently and your relationship with

Speaker:

money is different and you have to

Speaker:

spend the money first in order to

Speaker:

get the return.

Speaker:

Got it.

Speaker:

Everything that you do, it's so

Speaker:

if you're thinking like, oh my gosh,

Speaker:

I don't have a lot of money.

Speaker:

Like when I first started my business,

Speaker:

I was going through a horrible divorce.

Speaker:

I lost all my money, all of it.

Speaker:

I had $200 in the bank and my

Speaker:

grandmother had passed not that

Speaker:

long ago, not long be around that same

Speaker:

time, and she left me, I don't remember

Speaker:

exactly how much, but it was like,

Speaker:

It was enough to cover my initial

Speaker:

business expenses.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I could have taken that money and

Speaker:

lived for like six months, you know,

Speaker:

and I could have lived off of that,

Speaker:

or I took that money and I paid for

Speaker:

mentoring so I could learn the skills I

Speaker:

needed to learn as a business owner.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I invested in a website and you'd

Speaker:

dep appreciate this, and I invested in

Speaker:

content creation from the get go.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So I invested in.

Speaker:

getting articles, and I invested

Speaker:

in learning how to create videos.

Speaker:

And from that standpoint, I

Speaker:

grew my business at that point,

Speaker:

literally from zero.

Speaker:

I mean, I guess you could say 200

Speaker:

s, not zero, but let's just say zero

Speaker:

to 300,000 in the first 18 months.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's like my mindset changed,

Speaker:

like when I was standing in front of

Speaker:

my first opportunity I had right after I

Speaker:

launched my website.

Speaker:

I had a client who really wanted

Speaker:

to work with me.

Speaker:

Like they handed me a proposal and say,

Speaker:

meter beat this, this job's yours.

Speaker:

And it's like, you know what?

Speaker:

I, I saw myself differently.

Speaker:

I took a step back and I said, again,

Speaker:

I was like really in the hole, and

Speaker:

I was a single parent at the time.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I looked at their proposal, I'm

Speaker:

like, Nope, this is not what's in

Speaker:

the best interest of the client.

Speaker:

I gave a different proposal.

Speaker:

It I had to think like five times

Speaker:

more than what the competitor did.

Speaker:

And the clients were freaking out.

Speaker:

They're like, oh my gosh, we're gonna

Speaker:

have to break the, to work with Betsy.

Speaker:

And I'm like, mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And something came over me and

Speaker:

this is a phrase I use all the time.

Speaker:

Like, " No, that other person, that

Speaker:

is an expense.

Speaker:

It's an expense that you're gonna have.

Speaker:

I'm not an expense to be managed.

Speaker:

I'm an investment that will deliver

Speaker:

a return."

Speaker:

And they were like, "Whoa."

Speaker:

Then they signed immediately

Speaker:

on the spot.

Speaker:

So it's about the mindset around like,

Speaker:

I'm an investment.

Speaker:

And so I have to invest in myself.

Speaker:

I'm the product, I'm the product,

Speaker:

I'm the service.

Speaker:

I have to invest in myself and then

Speaker:

I'll get a return.

Speaker:

That's the key is, and then

Speaker:

you're gonna think about things

Speaker:

more creatively.

Speaker:

I don't know if that answered your

Speaker:

question or not.

Speaker:

Well, it did that,

Speaker:

more than that.

Speaker:

It was great.

Speaker:

I mean, that is so interesting

Speaker:

to me cuz I like to, talk about

Speaker:

things like, law.

Speaker:

You know, investing in lawyers and

Speaker:

they're thought of as expenses.

Speaker:

Like, okay, this is something

Speaker:

I have to do.

Speaker:

I don't wanna do it, but I gotta do it.

Speaker:

And it's risk avoidance and

Speaker:

versus like, if you use lawyers

Speaker:

strategically, to help you, put pieces

Speaker:

in place that build that foundation so

Speaker:

that you can grow.

Speaker:

it is an investment, you know, investing

Speaker:

in contracts, investing

Speaker:

in content.

Speaker:

and I have noticed in.

Speaker:

Like proposals, like if you see

Speaker:

something online and they'll have their

Speaker:

prices and they'll say investment

Speaker:

as opposed to price or cost.

Speaker:

And I like that because it really is

Speaker:

just thinking about it from, okay, this

Speaker:

is something that will have a return

Speaker:

on investment if I do my job right.

Speaker:

You do your job right, it's a

Speaker:

return on this and will help your

Speaker:

business grow.

Speaker:

I like that you used.

Speaker:

Just the term investment instead

Speaker:

of expenses.

Speaker:

Things that we could think of that

Speaker:

way, but I think it's the wrong way

Speaker:

to think about it.

Speaker:

I really like that explanation.

Speaker:

That was fantastic.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

Well, speaking of, attorneys though,

Speaker:

like you're an unusual attorney,

Speaker:

who's also a coach and so you, are a

Speaker:

strategic partner.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

the problem that you might have is

Speaker:

that your field on the whole is very

Speaker:

much by the hour and very much commodity.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

and it's like you get into the legal

Speaker:

situation and they don't have like a

Speaker:

big picture plan.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So the same things that I would

Speaker:

recommend to my clients who are

Speaker:

coaches is like, you need to have some

Speaker:

sort of defined.

Speaker:

Value that you're gonna create for a

Speaker:

client at the end.

Speaker:

Like, so if I were gonna work with

Speaker:

you in, maybe in a previous iteration,

Speaker:

it's like, "Okay, I wanna protect

Speaker:

my intellectual property."

Speaker:

it might be you would charge me

Speaker:

$500 an hour, boom, boom, boom.

Speaker:

Now my money's up in three hours.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

Or you would say, "I'm gonna help

Speaker:

you create a body of work that is

Speaker:

monetizable.", And let's say your

Speaker:

package is $10,000, but it's capped.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's a value, and I'm gonna

Speaker:

create a different kind of outcome.

Speaker:

Now, I could think about it

Speaker:

differently, but most lawyers don't

Speaker:

operate like as strategic partners.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

They set themselves up because the legal

Speaker:

field, that's why burnout is so bad.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

it's like by the hour, by the hour,

Speaker:

and the client gets to the end.

Speaker:

Like, I never.

Speaker:

Ever, ever charged by the hour?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Maybe very rarely for like a one-off,

Speaker:

like, If somebody needs like a one-off

Speaker:

kind of thing, it's like, okay, before

Speaker:

I sign up for this whole big program

Speaker:

with you, like, can I just do a

Speaker:

90 minute session?

Speaker:

It's like, okay, fine.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yeah, I'll do that.

Speaker:

But never charged by the hour.

Speaker:

Ever.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Ever.

Speaker:

Because if you are by the hour, first

Speaker:

off, I haven't been an hourly worker

Speaker:

since I was, 21.

Speaker:

Like, when was the last time I was

Speaker:

an hourly worker?

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

You know, like, I'm not gonna go

Speaker:

back and be an hourly worker ever.

Speaker:

But when you're talking about, your

Speaker:

mindset, it's your mindset influences

Speaker:

the clients.

Speaker:

Like, I'm an investment and

Speaker:

therefore I'm gonna encourage you to

Speaker:

be an investment.

Speaker:

the thing that gives clients

Speaker:

happiness is like, oh, you're promising

Speaker:

a, transformation.

Speaker:

that's different than I'm going

Speaker:

to do X, Y, and Z and methodology.

Speaker:

Methodology.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So you help people think about the way

Speaker:

that they're pricing they're offering

Speaker:

in terms of outcome versus inputs.

Speaker:

I help them think about the value

Speaker:

that they create so they can own their

Speaker:

worth and they can price properly.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Based on the transformation that

Speaker:

they're gonna create for the clients.

Speaker:

That's meaningful to the clients.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And then they invest themselves

Speaker:

in themselves properly in order

Speaker:

to deliver on that.

Speaker:

I have a good story about the hourly.

Speaker:

So, I worked with, IP-based

Speaker:

businesses for many, many years.

Speaker:

And, one of my big clients is

Speaker:

in the market research phase.

Speaker:

and then someone had gone over to

Speaker:

another market research place and

Speaker:

they're like, "Oh, I've worked with

Speaker:

other lawyers, I have to explain

Speaker:

everything to them, takes them forever

Speaker:

to figure it out.

Speaker:

I know that you know exactly how

Speaker:

to do this well."

Speaker:

I did.

Speaker:

And it took me no time to, like, I.

Speaker:

I can do this in my sleep.

Speaker:

I can fix your problem completely

Speaker:

in an hour.

Speaker:

And I was charging by the hour, you

Speaker:

and I fixed the problem immediately

Speaker:

because I'd been doing what they

Speaker:

needed for 10 years so my reward for

Speaker:

that was, getting almost nothing.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

So if you were a more junior person,

Speaker:

it would take you in 20 hours

Speaker:

and you would've made more money.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

So you're penalizing yourself rather

Speaker:

than if you can get it done an hour.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

I just did an interview with

Speaker:

an executive on my podcast.

Speaker:

I knew he was saying like a lot

Speaker:

of consultants are looking at

Speaker:

like, here's the economic value.

Speaker:

And he is like, you gotta understand

Speaker:

the return on time.

Speaker:

so in some ways is like, well I can

Speaker:

take five hours to do this and it's

Speaker:

gonna cost a less price, I'll get it

Speaker:

done in an hour.

Speaker:

And you could charge the premium

Speaker:

for the speed,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

No, it, it is a tough one.

Speaker:

And, you work with men and women, but

Speaker:

for many women have trouble feeling like

Speaker:

they're overcharging for things like

Speaker:

this, like, I know that I could get

Speaker:

that done, like, and be done by, time for

Speaker:

lunch and how can I charge for that?

Speaker:

but at the end of the day, what is

Speaker:

the value to the client is really

Speaker:

what matters there.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

I think men and women both

Speaker:

struggle with, like, especially if

Speaker:

you're a knowledge worker, and you're

Speaker:

getting paid for your expertise,

Speaker:

it's very hard to put a price tag on.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I see.

Speaker:

Men and women equally struggle

Speaker:

with that whole thing.

Speaker:

But I think what women struggle

Speaker:

with more is if somebody doesn't

Speaker:

have money, then they feel bad for

Speaker:

'em, where men don't care that much.

Speaker:

women are like, oh, okay, well I,

Speaker:

guess I'll discount it because I like

Speaker:

you and I wanna help you, or Yeah.

Speaker:

Let me do this for you for free.

Speaker:

Like, we're much more codependent

Speaker:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

From that standpoint.

Speaker:

And men are really good at like, this

Speaker:

is part of my paid program, and men

Speaker:

are more aggressive in asking for the

Speaker:

sale, more than, than women could be.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Oh, interesting.

Speaker:

do you, do you group coaching or are

Speaker:

they all individual?

Speaker:

I

Speaker:

just launched a group coaching

Speaker:

experience.

Speaker:

So I take people like through that

Speaker:

whole transition, from like, I have an

Speaker:

idea, I wanna launch it, I wanna move

Speaker:

into this thought leadership space.

Speaker:

So I do, there's some stuff that just

Speaker:

requires one-on-one kind of stuff.

Speaker:

So I do a lot of v i P days, like

Speaker:

brand messaging kind of stuff, wording,

Speaker:

copywriting and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker:

that's more like one-on-one.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's not really something that

Speaker:

lends itself to a group, but I've

Speaker:

been very passionate about bringing

Speaker:

groups together.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Because of the power of being with

Speaker:

other people who are in the same

Speaker:

place that you are, the learning,

Speaker:

and it's been really powerful.

Speaker:

So I started this Purpose to

Speaker:

Profits Academy, is what I call it.

Speaker:

And the promise here is like, we're

Speaker:

gonna get into really actionable

Speaker:

kind of training to help you develop

Speaker:

all the skillsets that you're gonna

Speaker:

need over time.

Speaker:

Because as.

Speaker:

a consulting, a coaching business

Speaker:

owner, you have to learn the skills.

Speaker:

You didn't learn it, you know?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

If you were in corporate and

Speaker:

how do you learn these skills?

Speaker:

How do you learn copywriting?

Speaker:

How do you how to write a headline?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Or a sales page, or how do you

Speaker:

price yourself or how do you

Speaker:

create a proposal?

Speaker:

All those things.

Speaker:

And it's been really powerful.

Speaker:

I just launched it a few weeks ago.

Speaker:

And it's already been amazing.

Speaker:

Like the clients are able to bring the

Speaker:

specific things to the table that they

Speaker:

have questions on.

Speaker:

And don't just trust my opinion, like

Speaker:

hear all the other support and the

Speaker:

transformations that are really cool.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

Does, is that open enrollment

Speaker:

or do you have like a, cohort

Speaker:

that goes together at the same time?

Speaker:

No, it's an open enrollment.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

I decided it, this was like a

Speaker:

passion project I just launched.

Speaker:

It's, only like 2 97 a month.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And it's weekly coaching.

Speaker:

Like right now the price is gonna

Speaker:

be at that point.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I wanted to keep the price low because

Speaker:

I wanna have like purpose-driven

Speaker:

consultants and coaches together.

Speaker:

And so I deliberately kept

Speaker:

the price low and building those

Speaker:

actionable skills.

Speaker:

So we have weekly masterclass where

Speaker:

it's like we have a content and then

Speaker:

we have hot seats and conversations.

Speaker:

More content.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

It's pretty cool.

Speaker:

So people self-select in as

Speaker:

purpose driven, like what if you just

Speaker:

wanna make money?

Speaker:

is that an opt place for you?

Speaker:

Or,

Speaker:

I'm not really the best fit because my

Speaker:

belief is that the most sustainable,

Speaker:

most scalable, most profitable

Speaker:

business is the one that's aligned

Speaker:

to who you are.

Speaker:

and your passions.

Speaker:

Like it's, if you're a mid-career

Speaker:

person, like what's the point?

Speaker:

If you just wanna make money, go

Speaker:

somewhere else.

Speaker:

Like, I'm not your girl.

Speaker:

If you wanna make money doing what

Speaker:

you love, I'm your girl, but I don't

Speaker:

really wanna help.

Speaker:

I feel like it's unethical in the

Speaker:

consulting coaching space, to be honest.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

like, I'm not trying to be judgy

Speaker:

on other people, if that's the way

Speaker:

they wanna do it.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

when you think about the sacred role of a

Speaker:

consultant or coach, like we help ignite

Speaker:

transformation in either organizations

Speaker:

or people.

Speaker:

So let's say I'm a consultant

Speaker:

and I go into an organization that

Speaker:

might be struggling.

Speaker:

If I'm just in it for the paycheck,

Speaker:

I'm not gonna take all of the issues

Speaker:

seriously that.

Speaker:

Employees and customers are gonna

Speaker:

tell me, and I'm not doing justice.

Speaker:

Like you can't invite people to

Speaker:

focus groups and ask them to bear

Speaker:

their souls and not take what they're

Speaker:

telling you with, reverence it would

Speaker:

be saying, do you wanna go to a doctor

Speaker:

who's just in it for money without caring

Speaker:

about the patient?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

do you wanna hire a coach who just wants

Speaker:

to get famous, or do you wanna have

Speaker:

a coach who cares about helping you?

Speaker:

To me, the purpose-driven is an

Speaker:

alignment with the client-centric, like

Speaker:

a purpose-driven.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Client-centric service, they're

Speaker:

all the same.

Speaker:

You cannot have a purpose-driven

Speaker:

business if you don't have somebody

Speaker:

that you actually care about helping.

Speaker:

Like when I talk to you on my

Speaker:

podcast About.

Speaker:

Intellectual property, you

Speaker:

are right away.

Speaker:

Like, I wanna help people who are

Speaker:

experts and I wanna help women because

Speaker:

I believe that women are all about,

Speaker:

wealth in the hand of women, hands of

Speaker:

women is going to make a difference

Speaker:

in society.

Speaker:

And so of course if I have all

Speaker:

these options, like why would I

Speaker:

go to someone who just like, oh, I'm

Speaker:

a really smart.

Speaker:

intellectual property attorney,

Speaker:

please, here's my $500 an hour rate.

Speaker:

Or do I wanna have someone that's

Speaker:

like, wow, you really care about

Speaker:

me, you care about my intellectual

Speaker:

property, you care about me having

Speaker:

wealth so that I could give back

Speaker:

to the world.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

and even planting the seed around

Speaker:

how am I gonna give back to the world?

Speaker:

why would I ever wanna go

Speaker:

to anyone else?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I

Speaker:

agree that, and that's nice.

Speaker:

and they'll coming at it from that

Speaker:

point of view as a group that

Speaker:

they're all on the same page about

Speaker:

that and making sure that they're

Speaker:

helping people.

Speaker:

I love that.

Speaker:

So is there anything new in 2023 that

Speaker:

you're seeing this different, you've

Speaker:

been doing this, I think you said

Speaker:

15 years, what's on the horizon in

Speaker:

who's coming outta corporate now and

Speaker:

how is it different from the people who

Speaker:

are coming outta corporate pre

Speaker:

pandemic, maybe.

Speaker:

actually, those are two different

Speaker:

questions that are kind of related.

Speaker:

For people who are coming outta

Speaker:

corporate right now, I think it's just

Speaker:

we're seeing the residuals of the

Speaker:

whole pandemic, post pandemic and people

Speaker:

wanting more balance in their lives

Speaker:

and, organizations.

Speaker:

I've seen a difference

Speaker:

in the past.

Speaker:

I would say there was a shift in 2008

Speaker:

and there's a shift now, before 2008.

Speaker:

you had like this many customers and

Speaker:

this many employees in it kind of match.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

2008 with a recession's, like

Speaker:

okay, customers dropped off,

Speaker:

then they dropped employees, and

Speaker:

then when customers started coming

Speaker:

back, they kept employees like this.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And so now employees were working

Speaker:

2, 3, 4 jobs.

Speaker:

in the past.

Speaker:

And there was no time to think

Speaker:

and all of that.

Speaker:

And then I think with the pandemic,

Speaker:

it accelerated that whole thing

Speaker:

the workloads are crazy, but then

Speaker:

it's like companies are navigating

Speaker:

the virtual workforce versus

Speaker:

the live workforce.

Speaker:

And I think that there's a shift from

Speaker:

that standpoint.

Speaker:

So I think that people

Speaker:

are coming out.

Speaker:

Are a little bit like battle

Speaker:

fatigued.

Speaker:

They're a tight, like in 2020, a

Speaker:

lot of people are really energetic.

Speaker:

Like, okay, I'm gonna take

Speaker:

charge of this.

Speaker:

I'm gonna invest in my website,

Speaker:

all of this Right now, people have

Speaker:

more economic uncertainty, there's

Speaker:

more fear, and I think there's

Speaker:

just a collective soul exhaustion.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

That's at a different level now.

Speaker:

Like, so I think that from that

Speaker:

standpoint, as it relates to business

Speaker:

development, My favorite obsession.

Speaker:

I'm obsessed with ai.

Speaker:

I'm obsessed with chat.

Speaker:

G P T I just discovered it

Speaker:

yesterday, like

Speaker:

literally yesterday.

Speaker:

Like I've made it my, little

Speaker:

assistant, you you know, my

Speaker:

husband walks by and he's laughing.

Speaker:

He is like, watching me, with chat

Speaker:

G P T, and it's like, no, that's

Speaker:

not what I want.

Speaker:

I want this, you and I'm learning

Speaker:

how to make chat, G B T B, my junior

Speaker:

copywriter, oh, and my junior content

Speaker:

creator, like talking about ip.

Speaker:

that's actually an issue for you.

Speaker:

it's like if people are creating a body

Speaker:

of work, how do you differentiate

Speaker:

between what chat cheap PTs creating

Speaker:

versus what you're creating?

Speaker:

But it's fascinating.

Speaker:

I could say, I could write something,

Speaker:

I'm like, Hey, could you rewrite

Speaker:

this in the voice of Betsy And it,

Speaker:

does my voice, I'm like, This is weird.

Speaker:

how do you know my voice?

Speaker:

So you

Speaker:

fed it like your past writings,

Speaker:

and then it kind of goes, okay,

Speaker:

this is the way she generally

Speaker:

write.

Speaker:

How does it.

Speaker:

It knows my writings.

Speaker:

I did something, I played around

Speaker:

with it once.

Speaker:

It was like I took something I

Speaker:

was working on.

Speaker:

I'm like, can you rewrite this

Speaker:

in The Voice of Betsy Jordan?

Speaker:

And then I did that, and then it's

Speaker:

like, you and I both know Carol Cox.

Speaker:

So I'm like, can you rewrite it in The

Speaker:

voice of Carol Cox?

Speaker:

So speaking your brand and then

Speaker:

rewrote it in Carol's language.

Speaker:

And I was like, oh, that's so weird.

Speaker:

I was like, little shifts between

Speaker:

the two of us.

Speaker:

like, this is fascinating.

Speaker:

it's very fascinating.

Speaker:

Even little things like, Hey, can you

Speaker:

give me a script on how to confront

Speaker:

my adult daughter who's living with

Speaker:

me now and, how to ask her to help me

Speaker:

know, clean up more.

Speaker:

it's like, oh, well, and then it

Speaker:

would just gimme a little script.

Speaker:

I'm like, ah, this is pretty

Speaker:

good, Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

I think that that's gonna be a trend

Speaker:

that we need to be paying attention to.

Speaker:

I think that's gonna really shake up

Speaker:

the marketing world and the content

Speaker:

creation world in a very big way.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

the reason it even came across my,

Speaker:

desk, so to speak, because I To me,

Speaker:

AI was just way outside of, I'm

Speaker:

like, ah, I can't, after I was doing

Speaker:

a legal M C L E, you know, training

Speaker:

about the impact of ai, like the

Speaker:

legal implications of ai, and they're

Speaker:

describing all the things it could

Speaker:

do, I'm like, it could do that.

Speaker:

It could do that.

Speaker:

So immediately had to go on like, yeah.

Speaker:

And so now I'm obsessed too.

Speaker:

I spent the afternoon, on

Speaker:

chat, G P t.

Speaker:

Oh my God.

Speaker:

I asked Zach chat, g b t before

Speaker:

our interview.

Speaker:

I'm like, what are some good questions

Speaker:

I could ask Aaron on my podcast.

Speaker:

And it's like, Aaron Austin

Speaker:

is an attorney and a business

Speaker:

strategist who does X, Y, and Z.

Speaker:

and so he gave me a bunch of ideas like,

Speaker:

you what inspired you to become an

Speaker:

an intellectual property attorney?

Speaker:

Have you always worked for

Speaker:

yourself or did work for a firm?

Speaker:

what is intellectual property?

Speaker:

what's the best way?

Speaker:

It had all kinds of questions.

Speaker:

Like I didn't necessarily ask you

Speaker:

those questions.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But it's like, that was an interesting

Speaker:

starting point.

Speaker:

one of the things that came out during

Speaker:

this training is because lots of law

Speaker:

firms have already started using it,

Speaker:

and Before we even really heard about

Speaker:

it, cuz they use it for document

Speaker:

production and, doing due diligence

Speaker:

and all this stuff what it will be is

Speaker:

like, you know, will it replace lawyers?

Speaker:

It's like, well no, but lawyers who

Speaker:

don't use it will be at a massive

Speaker:

disadvantage.

Speaker:

And that it may even be that it could

Speaker:

be, you malpractice not to use it.

Speaker:

Because what if you miss something,

Speaker:

if you've got a thousand documents

Speaker:

to look at and you use people instead

Speaker:

of AI and you miss something, it's

Speaker:

at malpractice.

Speaker:

So, and I imagine.

Speaker:

In other industries, because you can

Speaker:

be more efficient and maybe, perform

Speaker:

more quickly, more accurately, maybe

Speaker:

charge less, that if you're not using

Speaker:

it, that it will be a disadvantage.

Speaker:

it's like someone not having a website

Speaker:

if you're not using ai, you know?

Speaker:

I think that that's interesting,

Speaker:

because there's two flip sides.

Speaker:

Like you can't really replace the

Speaker:

expertise, but I worry that it's

Speaker:

gonna make us dumb.

Speaker:

I spent a lot of time thinking about

Speaker:

like our interview.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And what I wanted to talk about.

Speaker:

obviously I approached you in

Speaker:

the beginning to say, I want you

Speaker:

on the show for a particular reason.

Speaker:

But the creative process of trying

Speaker:

to figure like, okay, what is it

Speaker:

that I wanna say?

Speaker:

is a risk factor, but that's

Speaker:

a big thing.

Speaker:

that's coming up.

Speaker:

the initial point of this particular

Speaker:

podcast is all around like,

Speaker:

thinking about profit and how

Speaker:

to, think about profit from a

Speaker:

scale standpoint is it does create

Speaker:

more efficiencies.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So that allows you to scale and if you

Speaker:

don't have money to invest in assistance

Speaker:

or if you are using assistance,

Speaker:

it allows you to do that.

Speaker:

I like that.

Speaker:

Well, you did touch on like the AI.

Speaker:

And IP and the conflicts there.

Speaker:

But when you're working with your

Speaker:

clients, and I know, developing

Speaker:

thought leadership and content is

Speaker:

part of what you help them do.

Speaker:

do explicit questions about

Speaker:

intellectual property come up?

Speaker:

Like what are they thinking about

Speaker:

building IP assets?

Speaker:

Are they thinking about that journey

Speaker:

from hourly to exit?

Speaker:

what, happening around those issues?

Speaker:

I look at everything like in a five

Speaker:

step, you and I are process people.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

so To me, there's like five phases

Speaker:

of your business.

Speaker:

First, it's you gotta start the

Speaker:

right business, then you gotta figure

Speaker:

out your brand messaging position

Speaker:

and your website and getting your

Speaker:

website situated.

Speaker:

And then you need to be in some sort

Speaker:

of process where you know how to

Speaker:

convert clients.

Speaker:

And then the ultimate place

Speaker:

is that thought leadership.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Because that is where you scale

Speaker:

and there's no other way to scale

Speaker:

without content.

Speaker:

there's no way that you're gonna

Speaker:

be a premium brand position.

Speaker:

You can't raise your fees because without

Speaker:

content you're not gonna look

Speaker:

like that expert.

Speaker:

if without content, you can't

Speaker:

really show up on social media.

Speaker:

You can't really stand out.

Speaker:

I have some clients who are naturally

Speaker:

inclined in that way, but most of

Speaker:

my clients are a little bit afraid

Speaker:

of intellectual property of the

Speaker:

vulnerability, you this is where the

Speaker:

whole transition from corporate to

Speaker:

this kind of stuff.

Speaker:

It's like, well, I put my

Speaker:

ideas out there.

Speaker:

Like, I remember the first time I

Speaker:

was creating videos, it was like, I

Speaker:

was overwhelmed.

Speaker:

Like my first video guy, I'll never

Speaker:

forget this whole thing I went to, his

Speaker:

place and I wound up staying with him

Speaker:

and his wife, and before I left, he's

Speaker:

like, okay, you're be doing scripts.

Speaker:

you're gonna be doing scripts to

Speaker:

the teleprompter.

Speaker:

I'm like, no, no, no, Chad, I

Speaker:

don't do that.

Speaker:

Like, I'm just gonna be on the cuff.

Speaker:

You know, I'm gonna be on the flight.

Speaker:

And he's like, no, no, no, you're

Speaker:

gonna do that.

Speaker:

I'm like, Okay, fine.

Speaker:

So I got there and I wrote some scripts.

Speaker:

So I go downstairs and I read my

Speaker:

script to him and he records and

Speaker:

he is like, Nope, this is terrible.

Speaker:

Go back up.

Speaker:

I'm like, ah, okay.

Speaker:

So I go back up and then I write

Speaker:

another one.

Speaker:

He is like, no, this is still terrible.

Speaker:

Go back up.

Speaker:

And then I come back down.

Speaker:

He is like, okay, this is good.

Speaker:

And I wrote like seven

Speaker:

different scripts.

Speaker:

We were hoping for three videos.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But once I got three.

Speaker:

Videos up.

Speaker:

I was able to get like seven that day.

Speaker:

I learned something at that particular

Speaker:

point, like how to quickly

Speaker:

manifest the ideas.

Speaker:

when my website launched, like I

Speaker:

was landing clients, from other parts

Speaker:

of the world, like people, I never

Speaker:

met six figure engagements because

Speaker:

of the power of my content.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

Because I had videos, because I

Speaker:

had all of this.

Speaker:

So my whole global business is built on

Speaker:

content, so, Content is essential, but

Speaker:

the questions that I would ask like

Speaker:

first, people have to be ready for it.

Speaker:

But where the source of your

Speaker:

content is, it's not even just in

Speaker:

your formal business experience mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Is in your personal experience.

Speaker:

So we work on what's your story

Speaker:

and like, what's your big idea?

Speaker:

I have a client who is a cancer

Speaker:

survivor, and at the same time when

Speaker:

she had cancer, her dad had cancer

Speaker:

and he had passed.

Speaker:

And so she's already been a productivity

Speaker:

kind of person.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But this experience ignited her.

Speaker:

It's like, We don't have time to waste

Speaker:

with inefficiencies.

Speaker:

We need to get our work done

Speaker:

fast so we can go live our lives.

Speaker:

And so when she works on content,

Speaker:

it's not like, okay, let's just talk

Speaker:

about productivity.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

It's talk about let's say somebody

Speaker:

might say well, what are five ways that

Speaker:

you can maximize?

Speaker:

how the service delivery or

Speaker:

something like that.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Like, and the reason why this is so

Speaker:

important is, just keep reinforcing

Speaker:

this big idea.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

There's a story behind why wealth

Speaker:

in the hands of women is important.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

if you're creating content, there's

Speaker:

always like that reiteration of this

Speaker:

bigger picture.

Speaker:

it's not just about creating a

Speaker:

body of work, it's about creating

Speaker:

wealth so that you can give back to

Speaker:

the world, right?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And keep bringing it back to that point.

Speaker:

That's what I, I didn't do when I

Speaker:

started my content and now my content

Speaker:

is really clunky.

Speaker:

So with my clients, I call it your

Speaker:

controlling idea.

Speaker:

Kind of like your thesis

Speaker:

of your paper.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Have clarity on your thesis so that

Speaker:

everything that you write about supports

Speaker:

that main point.

Speaker:

That's very nice.

Speaker:

Well, this is a very meta podcast,

Speaker:

I like to say.

Speaker:

So it is about for female founders

Speaker:

of F businesses who are building

Speaker:

a business that they can hopefully

Speaker:

sell someday.

Speaker:

So do you have future plans for

Speaker:

your business that may include

Speaker:

selling?

Speaker:

Yeah, my husband keeps talking

Speaker:

about this one.

Speaker:

I would love coaching on that

Speaker:

one because it's hard for me to

Speaker:

visualize, like, how would I sell?

Speaker:

my business when it's so tied to

Speaker:

my personality.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So that would be like, of course,

Speaker:

who wouldn't want that at some point?

Speaker:

I don't see myself retiring ever at

Speaker:

a point, but the idea of having that

Speaker:

opportunity, but I can't visualize it.

Speaker:

So that's where I would refer to

Speaker:

someone like you.

Speaker:

Like, paint a picture for me.

Speaker:

What would that look like?

Speaker:

Well, I like

Speaker:

to say that the things that help you

Speaker:

scale your business are the same things

Speaker:

that would help you sell your business

Speaker:

in the future.

Speaker:

So things that are decoupling the

Speaker:

income from you, Betsy, you know,

Speaker:

putting in the work.

Speaker:

So developing frameworks,

Speaker:

developing courses, having maybe

Speaker:

additional coaches on, you know, who

Speaker:

could, run the business after you,

Speaker:

or having something that, if an.

Speaker:

Bigger coaching company, Johnny, you

Speaker:

know, tiny Robbins came over and said

Speaker:

he wanted to buy your, framework to

Speaker:

have something that you could sell.

Speaker:

But those are the same things that

Speaker:

you are doing anyway to grow your

Speaker:

business today.

Speaker:

So, You're laying them foundations

Speaker:

for that already.

Speaker:

That's

Speaker:

it.

Speaker:

That's a such an interesting picture.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

that would be an interesting, this

Speaker:

thing to see is more like how do

Speaker:

you paint that picture of what

Speaker:

would it look like?

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

For to sell a personal business.

Speaker:

Franklin Covey did it, you know?

Speaker:

they're not alive anymore.

Speaker:

I'm sure Marshall Goldsmith's gonna

Speaker:

have the same thing.

Speaker:

He's got a legacy business.

Speaker:

Brene Brown probably has a

Speaker:

legacy business.

Speaker:

Oh, I'm sure.

Speaker:

Uhhuh.

Speaker:

But it's like how to see yourself

Speaker:

in that same way.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

you're a parent.

Speaker:

So we can look at our businesses as

Speaker:

raising children that are going

Speaker:

to be independent from us someday.

Speaker:

Like how can this kid possibly be

Speaker:

independent from us?

Speaker:

But if we're raising them correctly then

Speaker:

they will go on and succeed without us.

Speaker:

think of it a little bit that way too.

Speaker:

So, Interesting.

Speaker:

All right, so you've mentioned

Speaker:

your new, group coaching, program

Speaker:

that you have launched Evergreen.

Speaker:

So where can people find you, and if

Speaker:

there is, freebie or something that

Speaker:

you like people to

Speaker:

sign up for, so my website is www

Speaker:

dot Betsy Jordan and Jordan's with

Speaker:

an Y, not an a.

Speaker:

There's, you'll have Be People.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

There's a Betsy Jordan with an A out

Speaker:

there who gets all my emails, dot com.

Speaker:

so that's my website so you can find out

Speaker:

more of my services.

Speaker:

So if you go to that same U R L,

Speaker:

but add services.

Speaker:

So I have my signature coaching

Speaker:

program, which is like my

Speaker:

brand messaging.

Speaker:

That's the one that everybody goes

Speaker:

through if they're working with me

Speaker:

more extensively.

Speaker:

And that's really getting clarity

Speaker:

on your, ideal business model, how

Speaker:

you fit into the marketplace, how

Speaker:

you stand out in the marketplace.

Speaker:

And to me, that's the part where I've

Speaker:

leaned in where other business

Speaker:

mentors like gloss over, that's the

Speaker:

really important foundational thing.

Speaker:

and if you wanna find the academy,

Speaker:

you just, betsy jordan.com/academy.

Speaker:

Super fun.

Speaker:

this is like my fun play area, you

Speaker:

the other part's, like it's hard

Speaker:

work, you I make my clients work

Speaker:

cuz it's like a lot of contemplation,

Speaker:

pulling stuff out.

Speaker:

but I got a ton of freebies, so if

Speaker:

you go under free resources, I have

Speaker:

free templates, tools, I have a

Speaker:

script on, how to articulate

Speaker:

what you do.

Speaker:

I have a, eCourses for free where I

Speaker:

collected some of my content on, Imposter

Speaker:

syndrome, like a lot of people deal with

Speaker:

imposter syndrome.

Speaker:

So I have the cure for imposter

Speaker:

syndrome.

Speaker:

It's a little mini course where

Speaker:

I've collected my podcasts and some

Speaker:

interviews and stuff like that.

Speaker:

So that's a starting place there.

Speaker:

So there's lots of freebies

Speaker:

on my website.

Speaker:

You can go to my YouTube channel.

Speaker:

There's a ton over there.

Speaker:

Or my Enough already podcast.

Speaker:

That's another passion project.

Speaker:

my two fun things, like obviously

Speaker:

I still love Mike branding.

Speaker:

I love branding so much because it's

Speaker:

like, bringing in the inside

Speaker:

of somebody out.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But it, it is a lot of work.

Speaker:

So my play areas is my podcast The

Speaker:

Enough Already Podcast and the

Speaker:

Purpose to Profits Academy is more

Speaker:

like my play areas.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

since you brought up imposter syndrome,

Speaker:

I'm just gonna ask this quickly.

Speaker:

So I have this theory that

Speaker:

consultants, experts, don't

Speaker:

think that they are ready for ip.

Speaker:

Like, the big people.

Speaker:

and to think that I'm ready for IP is

Speaker:

maybe an imposter syndrome issue.

Speaker:

do I have anything there?

Speaker:

Oh, for sure.

Speaker:

I think imposter syndrome hits

Speaker:

every single time you're hitting

Speaker:

a step change in your career.

Speaker:

So to me, imposter syndrome is like,

Speaker:

okay, do I have what it takes?

Speaker:

Do I have what it takes?

Speaker:

Well, that's because you're really

Speaker:

dealing with the fear of the unknown.

Speaker:

I've never done it before.

Speaker:

it's like I don't really necessarily

Speaker:

know how to do it, but I think

Speaker:

what, I like what you say that is a

Speaker:

good cure for the imposter syndrome.

Speaker:

Well, first off, you have

Speaker:

to normalize it.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

And you have to say like, imposter

Speaker:

syndrome is actually the part that makes

Speaker:

you wanna crawl under bed and never

Speaker:

come out again.

Speaker:

If you flip it into the light

Speaker:

attribute, it's your integrity saying,

Speaker:

I don't wanna make a promise that

Speaker:

I can't deliver.

Speaker:

I don't wanna do some of that.

Speaker:

Like, it's not just about the fear of

Speaker:

rejection or the vulnerability,

Speaker:

but it's also like there's an

Speaker:

integrity element.

Speaker:

So, from imposter syndrome standpoint

Speaker:

is like first off, you have to

Speaker:

acknowledge it and you have to

Speaker:

appreciate it.

Speaker:

it's just trying to keep you safe,

Speaker:

it's not a bad part of you.

Speaker:

Like I'm absolutely not a fan when

Speaker:

people would say all the chatter

Speaker:

in your head.

Speaker:

It's like, it's a gremlin, you

Speaker:

need to eradicate.

Speaker:

I'm like, well, that's

Speaker:

a part of you.

Speaker:

And if you eradicate, if you

Speaker:

try to suppress the, bad part, you're

Speaker:

gonna suppress the good part.

Speaker:

And the good part is, I still have a

Speaker:

vision for something bigger than where

Speaker:

I'm at right now.

Speaker:

So if you're worrying about

Speaker:

intellectual property there's

Speaker:

some part is like you normalize

Speaker:

it, and you understand, well,

Speaker:

what does it need?

Speaker:

And it's like, well, maybe it

Speaker:

needs someone like you who can help

Speaker:

draw out of them.

Speaker:

Or someone like me, we could draw

Speaker:

out of you what your intellectual

Speaker:

property is invalidate that.

Speaker:

This is interesting.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

and the thing is me, with ip, Is, I know

Speaker:

I'm doing good IP or is when I'm the

Speaker:

learner, there's a lot of times like

Speaker:

I'm not creating ip, I'm channeling ip.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

and it's like when I'm channeling

Speaker:

the ip, that's the interesting stuff.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

So then it's like, I just did a podcast

Speaker:

on decoding the profit puzzle.

Speaker:

You the difference between stable

Speaker:

profits, sustainable profits, and

Speaker:

scalable profits.

Speaker:

And they're different

Speaker:

kind of thing.

Speaker:

And it hasn't really gotten like

Speaker:

huge hits cause I think people

Speaker:

like hearing more from me about like

Speaker:

strengths and how to communicate value.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

But still I have that mindset, but

Speaker:

even though if it didn't perform as

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well as maybe all the other ones, like

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I learned something very different.

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Right.

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That really prepped me for

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our conversation is I'm very clear

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on the difference between this the

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scalable thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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That I never really thought about.

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Like I was all about the sustainable, I

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want predictability, stable profitability

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is one, but sustainable.

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Like, I wanna be in this over the

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long term, but it's like having

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that new vision.

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so it's like creating that

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podcast, it's like, okay, fine.

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it's not my best.

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It's not gonna be like my seminal

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one, but I learned something.

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Yeah.

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And I think if I were gonna talk

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to anybody, Who's listening about the

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imposter syndrome is, I would go back

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to what you say is you have stuff in

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your head, you just have to manifest it.

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Mm-hmm.

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In order to make intellectual

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property.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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But I think that the other thing

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is, is that you're the first learner.

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It's interesting for you, it'll

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be interesting for other people.

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And if you just go and put stuff

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out there, like the beauty about

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intellectual property, especially

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if you do a blog or a podcast YouTube

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channel, like there's always

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another day, right?

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You know?

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Or it's like, okay, well that one was

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a bust, or like that one was a hit.

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You never know what's gonna

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be a hit, but go with what's

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interesting, you And you'll learn,

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say, the fastest way to continue

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to develop your expertise is to

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create more content around it, doing

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research around it, putting it out into

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the world, getting feedback on it.

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not only the perception of your

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expertise, but the actual increase

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of your expertise, from continuing

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to create.

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there's like a book I would

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recommend is, I would recommend Big

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Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, if you

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wanna get over it.

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so what, Elizabeth Gilbert says

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is, ideas are energetic forms

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that are waiting to be manifest.

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And they're looking for a human

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collaborator to make it manifest.

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if you don't say yes to the idea, the

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idea's gonna move on to somebody else.

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Yeah.

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And so it's like at the ideas.

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Is like almost a separate entity

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that you could do a little dance with,

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then it's fun.

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It's like I'm having a relationship

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with my ideas.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's not like, oh, it's so attached

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to me, and it's like, oh, okay,

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this is my ideas.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's like, no, the idea is separate

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from me and I'm having fun with

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it, and I'm just bringing it to life.

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Like again, I.

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The best content is gonna be the one

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that you channel not necessarily create.

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Mm-hmm.

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So the more you're in your head, the

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less interesting it's gonna be

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for you and for your audience.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Agreed.

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All right.

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Nice little bonus at the end there.

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Thank you so much, Betsy.

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Thank you, Erin.

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It was so much fun being on your show,

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and I'm so excited about what you do.

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I'm fascinated by everything that you

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say and I cannot recommend you

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enough to anybody who's working on,

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really monetizing their body of work.

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You have the right heart, the right

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mind, you've got the whole package.

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So thank you for having me

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on the show.

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Well, thank

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you.

About the Podcast

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Hourly to Exit

About your host

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Erin Austin

Meet Erin Austin, a Harvard Law alum with over 25 years of copyright and contracts experience. As the go-to advisor for professionals with corporate clients, Erin empowers entrepreneurs to be their own advocates, standing out for her commitment to transforming expertise into empires through the creation, protection and leveraging of intellectual property assets. Explore her blend of legal expertise and entrepreneurial insight on ThinkBeyondIP.com and the "Hourly to Exit" podcast. Off the clock, you'll find Erin in the great outdoors or connecting with business coaches to elevate 6-figure consultants into 7-figure powerhouses.