Episode 46
E46: Making the Mindset Transition from Corporate with Betsy Jordyn
Many of my listeners have decided to leave their job in corporate America and go out on their own. In this episode of the Hourly to Exit Podcast, I interview Betsy Jordyn, a brilliant consultant who works with people moving from employee to entrepreneur, and she had some great advice to offer during our conversation.
Some of the highlights of the episode include:
- How to rethink money by going from drawing a salary to generating income and profit
- Investments vs. Expenses: a perspective that is critical to your business and to selling to your clients
- The role of a coach or consultant calling for a purpose-driven business model
- BONUS: We covered some great tips for getting past impostor syndrome
Betsy tells us that she isn’t planning her exit strategy, and we talked about how the same process she is using to scale her business can help when she gets to the point where she wants to sell the business. This is the heart of what I do at Think Beyond IP. If you are considering scaling or selling your business, contact me for a consultation about the steps you should take.
More About Our Guest:
Betsy Jordyn is a Brand Positioning Strategist that helps consulting and coaching business owners clarify their brand positioning and messaging, create a website presence that positions them as sought-after experts, land clients with ease and integrity, and take their place as thought leaders and influencers in their niche. Her mission is to help consultants and coaches monetize their best-at-strengths and authentic passions to make a bigger difference in the world.
Connect with Betsy Jordyn:
Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.
Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/
Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos
Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music
A Team Dklutr production
Transcript
Hello., ladies.
Speaker:Welcome to the Hourly to
Speaker:Exit podcast.
Speaker:I am so excited for today's guest,
Speaker:Betsy Jordan.
Speaker:Erin.
Speaker:I'm so happy to have you here today.
Speaker:Lots for us to talk about.
Speaker:But before we get started, can you
Speaker:introduce yourself
Speaker:to the audience?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:My name is Betsy Jordan.
Speaker:I am a business mentor and a
Speaker:brand messaging and positioning
Speaker:strategist for remarkable
Speaker:consultants and coaches and their
Speaker:unique strengths and experiences
Speaker:and passions.
Speaker:Very nice, very nice.
Speaker:So who is your typical client
Speaker:and how did you upon them?
Speaker:Did they choose you or did you
Speaker:choose them?
Speaker:So my ideal client is usually somebody
Speaker:who's either like one or two phases
Speaker:in their career.
Speaker:They're either at a corporate
Speaker:kind of job and they're like, okay,
Speaker:I've had enough.
Speaker:I've hit the top.
Speaker:I wonder What is this for?
Speaker:I wanna have control over my career in
Speaker:my life, and I have more significance,
Speaker:and I'm not sure how to navigate that.
Speaker:So that's one set of my clients and
Speaker:they know they wanna start a business
Speaker:that relates to their knowledge and
Speaker:their expertise.
Speaker:Like a consultant, coach, speaker
Speaker:kind of person.
Speaker:Or it's somebody who they built.
Speaker:The wrong business and it's not the
Speaker:business that they are loving and it's
Speaker:not the right one.
Speaker:I work with them and we use basically
Speaker:the same processes for both of them.
Speaker:I think they find me because of my
Speaker:content, which is how you and
Speaker:I got connected.
Speaker:Very,
Speaker:very nice.
Speaker:So I've heard, you reminded me of
Speaker:this term boomer preneur, but maybe
Speaker:that doesn't apply.
Speaker:Like we're people who had this
Speaker:whole career and now they wanna Do
Speaker:this consulting or things like that?
Speaker:Is that a term that, am I the only one
Speaker:who uses that term?
Speaker:I don't know if I would use that one.
Speaker:I use more like corporate refugee
Speaker:or somebody who's like a mid-career
Speaker:professional.
Speaker:Like there's other people like Marie
Speaker:Folio who's out there and I think
Speaker:there's a huge difference between
Speaker:somebody who's an entrepreneur
Speaker:and that's their first career.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Versus what it takes for somebody
Speaker:who's mid-career, who's got, a certain
Speaker:amount of perk status in their
Speaker:job, in their.
Speaker:Corner office, their status.
Speaker:Everybody's expecting so much
Speaker:from them and for them to leave that
Speaker:kind of golden handcuff kind of
Speaker:situation mm-hmm.
Speaker:Into starting a business
Speaker:is completely different.
Speaker:And those are the people I really love
Speaker:serving the most.
Speaker:that is a shocker.
Speaker:As well as just the way are staffed
Speaker:has changed.
Speaker:Like when I started my career,
Speaker:everyone had.
Speaker:What was then as secretary, but then
Speaker:became an assistant.
Speaker:And then I remember, this is maybe 10
Speaker:years ago, I was working with a
Speaker:client and I'm like, well, you know, just
Speaker:have your assistant send it to me.
Speaker:He's like, and this was the c e o And
Speaker:he is like, I don't have an assistant.
Speaker:Like, cause everyone just, you know,
Speaker:kind of, and they just kind of do
Speaker:things differently, you know?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And, so to stop having that, support
Speaker:and becoming an entrepreneur, that's
Speaker:gotta be quite the shock to the system.
Speaker:Well, that will actually feed
Speaker:into part of what we're gonna
Speaker:talk about today.
Speaker:I mean, there's many things that we
Speaker:could talk about, but that's corporate
Speaker:to entrepreneur transition.
Speaker:And in particular in the consulting
Speaker:space where we're experts, we're using
Speaker:our brains, we're gonna talk about
Speaker:profitability, I'll let you talk about
Speaker:what the differences are, but really
Speaker:about profitability.
Speaker:Because when we're in corporate and
Speaker:we think about, you know, okay, you have
Speaker:revenue, and then you got all these
Speaker:overhead pieces.
Speaker:rent and payroll and office supplies
Speaker:and vendors and maybe when we are
Speaker:solopreneurs, we.
Speaker:Don't have any of those things.
Speaker:So we think it's all profit, you know?
Speaker:and we're not really thinking about
Speaker:the big picture of making sure what
Speaker:we're doing really is profitable.
Speaker:Does it really make sense for us
Speaker:to do this versus going back to the
Speaker:corporate job.
Speaker:And so I'd love for you to start big
Speaker:picture about, what profit is versus
Speaker:things like income and revenue and
Speaker:how that applies the problems that
Speaker:you see among your, clients
Speaker:kind of wrapping their heads around
Speaker:these things.
Speaker:one of the biggest things I think
Speaker:when people are leaving a corporate
Speaker:job and starting a or any sort of
Speaker:job and starting a business is
Speaker:understanding that your relationship to
Speaker:money has changed.
Speaker:So when you're in a job, you're in a
Speaker:compensation model.
Speaker:what that means is I do work.
Speaker:And then I get paid for, I don't
Speaker:even have to get paid for it.
Speaker:I get paid.
Speaker:And I get compensated for
Speaker:the work that I do.
Speaker:And so it's a compensation model.
Speaker:And I think a lot of times when
Speaker:people leave that compensation model
Speaker:and they go into a business, they don't
Speaker:make that shift of saying, "Wait a
Speaker:minute, I have to create a business."
Speaker:And business is different.
Speaker:So business is about, I invest
Speaker:money first and then I get a return.
Speaker:And so that's like the first big shift
Speaker:like, any one of my clients were
Speaker:advising their clients or going
Speaker:to a company, they would say,
Speaker:"Well, you have to spend money
Speaker:to make money."
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But when they leave and they start their
Speaker:own business, they think, well, I don't
Speaker:need to spend money.
Speaker:I could just go out there and
Speaker:find clients.
Speaker:And I'm like, well, if you're gonna
Speaker:just go out there and find clients,
Speaker:you're actually recreating your job.
Speaker:In a business, and you're gonna wind
Speaker:up in that trading time for money
Speaker:trap because that's what you know.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And that's what other people are.
Speaker:So we think, oh, okay, well I'm
Speaker:gonna go look for other busier
Speaker:consultants and take their carryover
Speaker:work, or I'm gonna sign up for this
Speaker:coaching form and they're gonna bring
Speaker:clients to me.
Speaker:you're still in a compensation model,
Speaker:so there's no profit potential in a
Speaker:compensation model.
Speaker:Because you don't have a business, you
Speaker:have to think about money completely
Speaker:different when you are starting
Speaker:a business.
Speaker:That's why it's important that you
Speaker:invest properly in a really
Speaker:great website.
Speaker:You get clear in your messaging,
Speaker:you figure out who you're going after,
Speaker:and then you figure out like what are
Speaker:different ways that you're going to
Speaker:provide products and services that
Speaker:are scalable?
Speaker:And so that first mindset is you
Speaker:have to go first.
Speaker:And it's interesting with, expert
Speaker:knowledge workers as I always use,
Speaker:the example of the hotdog cart.
Speaker:Because I did research one time
Speaker:around how much does it cost to
Speaker:set up a cop dog cart, and it was
Speaker:like something like $50,000 you have
Speaker:to invest to buy a hotdog cart, get
Speaker:it up and running, find your corner
Speaker:and all of that.
Speaker:People would get that like, I have
Speaker:to spend money on my hotdog cart.
Speaker:I have to spend money on hotdogs.
Speaker:I have to spend money on
Speaker:condiments in order to get sales.
Speaker:But when you're dealing with
Speaker:knowledge, it's like, well, I
Speaker:don't need to do that because I've
Speaker:been doing this for a long time.
Speaker:So it's the mindset.
Speaker:Is the first thing before we could
Speaker:even talk about the difference between
Speaker:profitability, trading, time for
Speaker:money, and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker:Thank you
Speaker:for that.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Well, that's the danger of me
Speaker:trying to set up something without
Speaker:being the expert.
Speaker:So thank you for that.
Speaker:That is so important.
Speaker:I, have been a victim of exactly
Speaker:what you talked about and, some
Speaker:lawyers never leave that.
Speaker:Money, mindset.
Speaker:but it is something that I see again
Speaker:and again on the one hand, the ability
Speaker:to go straight from our corporate
Speaker:job to quickly, creating income, so
Speaker:we can keep paying the mortgage and
Speaker:things is one of the benefits of
Speaker:it, but also one of the traps of it,
Speaker:because you can get stuck there, right?
Speaker:you can't scale.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's not sustainable.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:when you're in a job and you're going the
Speaker:job search process, you only have to
Speaker:find one job and you're kind of done.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, nobody wants to be
Speaker:perennially out of work constantly
Speaker:on that hustle.
Speaker:looking for the next gig and the next gig
Speaker:and the next gig.
Speaker:That's exhausting.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And at some point, some of it's gonna
Speaker:say, well, forget it, I'm just gonna
Speaker:go leave and get a corporate job
Speaker:Because it is a lot easier.
Speaker:And the other thing that you do when you
Speaker:recreate that kind of role, like, I
Speaker:hate subcontracting.
Speaker:It's like, it makes me crazy because
Speaker:if you give control over how you set
Speaker:up work to somebody else, like you
Speaker:really don't have a business and you're
Speaker:not even really being a strategic
Speaker:partner or whoever you're helping.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:you do all of this where you're
Speaker:actually making less money.
Speaker:It may feel like you're making
Speaker:more money, but you're not, or
Speaker:you think you have more freedom.
Speaker:You're working the same amount
Speaker:of hours without any colleagues.
Speaker:really that are your colleagues.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:without any career opportunities.
Speaker:and without all of the other stuff.
Speaker:So it's like, it's the worst
Speaker:of all worlds.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:From my perspective.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Other people might like it.
Speaker:If you like it, cool.
Speaker:Like, I don't judge you, it's awesome.
Speaker:But from my standpoint, I
Speaker:didn't leave my corporate job.
Speaker:I was a senior leader at Walt
Speaker:Disney World.
Speaker:I had a great career.
Speaker:I had many opportunities I
Speaker:could take in my career anywhere
Speaker:If I wanted that, I would've
Speaker:stayed there.
Speaker:But instead I wanted to have control
Speaker:and freedom and all those other things.
Speaker:Yeah, there
Speaker:is that illusion that will get
Speaker:control and freedom from going out on
Speaker:our own, right.
Speaker:But if we really think about, if we
Speaker:don't have some of the things you're
Speaker:gonna talk about in place, that we just
Speaker:have created a job without benefits and
Speaker:without add upside.
Speaker:So, all right.
Speaker:let's get to how you help clients make
Speaker:that mindset shift.
Speaker:well, the first things first is we
Speaker:really talk about like, what kind of
Speaker:business you really wanna start, and get
Speaker:clear that you're starting a business,
Speaker:you to me, the way I help my clients
Speaker:is it's more of an action learning
Speaker:kind of thing.
Speaker:It's not like I just sit there and
Speaker:say, all right, well your mindset's
Speaker:gonna shift.
Speaker:It's like, your mindset's gonna
Speaker:shift as we do certain things.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:as we clarify who your ideal
Speaker:client is.
Speaker:that's a starting point because then
Speaker:you're gonna get clear of like,
Speaker:oh, okay, I have a business that's
Speaker:supporting somebody specific rather than
Speaker:here's my expertise.
Speaker:Like, that's where the flip is, when
Speaker:you're looking for a job like the
Speaker:spotlight, it is on you and all of your
Speaker:expertise when you build a business,
Speaker:the spotlight's on your ideal client,
Speaker:for you when you were making this
Speaker:shift is you are a corporate person
Speaker:you had all this legal IP advice,
Speaker:but you decided I wanna help women
Speaker:experts, and there's a bigger why.
Speaker:So you get really clear on that
Speaker:and that starts creating that shift,
Speaker:And then I work with my clients
Speaker:through like, no, how they're gonna
Speaker:stand out in the marketplace and
Speaker:then we work on their website.
Speaker:When you have your website, that
Speaker:helps you start thinking about
Speaker:like, okay, I have to really work on.
Speaker:marketing system.
Speaker:And I have to start thinking about
Speaker:bigger picture, like what's my online
Speaker:platform that's just like a brochure
Speaker:kind of website.
Speaker:So the mindset changes, like I'm
Speaker:not a believer of mindset changing.
Speaker:I just sit there in isolation.
Speaker:My mindset changes, and then I could
Speaker:do actions.
Speaker:I believe that as you do actions with
Speaker:intentionality, here's my mindset
Speaker:gap, like if I have a money issue, we're
Speaker:gonna have an actual tangible thing.
Speaker:Like, okay, let's talk about
Speaker:your website.
Speaker:and how do you wanna set it up
Speaker:and what's the money you're gonna
Speaker:leave on the table?
Speaker:And we work on it from that
Speaker:standpoint.
Speaker:there's like the action learning
Speaker:kind of things.
Speaker:And then there's advice I might
Speaker:give along the way.
Speaker:Like number one, there's many ways
Speaker:that you could set up your business,
Speaker:but I think you need to have business
Speaker:money separate and personal money, a
Speaker:wall between the two so that you
Speaker:start thinking about the profitability
Speaker:of your business and thinking about
Speaker:like, I'm gonna get a salary out of it.
Speaker:and that's gonna go over here, but
Speaker:sometimes people kinda like lump
Speaker:it all together.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Like I have, have a client who sent
Speaker:me a, a spreadsheet from a different
Speaker:form that she was working on,
Speaker:on how to figure out how much to
Speaker:charge different than weight that
Speaker:I would set it up.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And they included like, here's all my
Speaker:personal expenses and here's all
Speaker:my other things and this is how
Speaker:much money I have to make.
Speaker:I'm like, no, your personal expenses
Speaker:are over there.
Speaker:you have to put a wall, like
Speaker:there's a wall between the two.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So that you can look at your business
Speaker:profitability separately from
Speaker:here's my income.
Speaker:Well, let's stick into that cuz I
Speaker:do think people get really hung
Speaker:up on that.
Speaker:And, first decade of my business,
Speaker:freelancing everything that
Speaker:I collected from my clients was
Speaker:errands and that's how I paid the
Speaker:mortgage and sent the kid to school
Speaker:and that was it.
Speaker:And there wasn't, This business in
Speaker:the middle with me getting payroll.
Speaker:tell us about how do you work with your
Speaker:clients to, when you have someone like
Speaker:an Erin who just has their money come in
Speaker:and is not thinking about whether or
Speaker:not it's profitable, whether or not
Speaker:actually have a profitable business,
Speaker:do my offerings make sense?
Speaker:Is the way on building make sense?
Speaker:would I be better off just going
Speaker:back in house?
Speaker:what are the steps to, helping them
Speaker:think through
Speaker:that?
Speaker:First off, I would never suggest if
Speaker:somebody really feels like next
Speaker:step in their big calling is to be
Speaker:a business owner.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I would never say you need to burn
Speaker:those bridges.
Speaker:the only way that you're gonna be
Speaker:successful over the long term is
Speaker:to be committed to being successful.
Speaker:Well over the long term.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And you're never gonna figure it out
Speaker:right at the gate.
Speaker:So the first thing I would say to
Speaker:you is like, of course you approach
Speaker:it that way, no harm, no foul.
Speaker:the secret to your long term success
Speaker:is like you try some things out and you
Speaker:kind of pivot and you go, it's not a
Speaker:problem, if you're, depending on how
Speaker:you set things up.
Speaker:To, if you wanna have it mixed, like
Speaker:some people like to have it mixed and
Speaker:that is a way to do it, I believe,
Speaker:in the firewall.
Speaker:But the key would be is like I would
Speaker:be asking you how are you investing
Speaker:in your business and what kind of return
Speaker:are you looking at?
Speaker:And there's other ways that you would
Speaker:price your services.
Speaker:Like if you're not making enough money,
Speaker:From your services, like, well, we
Speaker:need to look at your products
Speaker:and services and how you're
Speaker:framing ' em up.
Speaker:are you setting up?
Speaker:a lot of coaches do this is they set
Speaker:up their business in this hourly
Speaker:type of thing.
Speaker:where it's like, okay, well I have
Speaker:my one hour package, that's a couple
Speaker:hundred dollars.
Speaker:I have my eight package, one where
Speaker:it breaks it down $150 a coaching
Speaker:session, and that kind of thing.
Speaker:Like, well, you're never gonna
Speaker:scale that one.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And that's not interesting.
Speaker:I would probably say, all right,
Speaker:Aaron, Let's talk about your ideal
Speaker:client and let's talk about what
Speaker:the problem that you're solving.
Speaker:Let's talk about who they're turning
Speaker:to, to solve those problems and where
Speaker:the gaps are.
Speaker:And let's frame up a very interesting
Speaker:signature program.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:That would have a variety of different
Speaker:elements that would be of more value.
Speaker:So it's like, we wanna look at it
Speaker:from that angle and we wanna look at
Speaker:like, well, what are your profit goals?
Speaker:So if you wanna make, let's say,
Speaker:a hundred thousand dollars a year
Speaker:and you think your average price per
Speaker:client is X and it's like, okay,
Speaker:so I need to create a $5,000 program.
Speaker:It's like, well, what would we
Speaker:need to include to make this a
Speaker:$5,000 program?
Speaker:It could include X number of
Speaker:coaching sessions.
Speaker:It can include a membership forum.
Speaker:It could include an online, Course
Speaker:it can include on-call access,
Speaker:which by the way is high value that
Speaker:people undervalue.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And people don't do this “on-call
Speaker:trusted advisor” because they're
Speaker:worried that people are gonna take
Speaker:advantage of you
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But it's high value.
Speaker:Like I could call you when I need
Speaker:to, maybe you include office
Speaker:hours or maybe you include live
Speaker:retreats, and all of that is $5,000.
Speaker:So, for example, I worked with a
Speaker:girl named Rachel.
Speaker:She's a dating coach.
Speaker:She was initially starting off with
Speaker:like, I'm gonna kind of do this, and
Speaker:it's like, no, let's create your program.
Speaker:and her program includes an upfront
Speaker:assessment, and a certain kickoff
Speaker:in-depth coaching session around
Speaker:X, Y, and Z.
Speaker:Then she has X number of
Speaker:coaching calls.
Speaker:Then she has the dating profile
Speaker:review included in the program, and
Speaker:then of course, adding in those
Speaker:special bonuses.
Speaker:And it's all about how you frame
Speaker:it, and that's a scalable offer.
Speaker:That's interesting.
Speaker:Now people are gonna be like, oh,
Speaker:okay, I'm willing to pay more because
Speaker:of the return.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Got it.
Speaker:And so when you use the term
Speaker:investments, like what does that
Speaker:mean specifically?
Speaker:I mean, in coaching and, other types
Speaker:of human resources.
Speaker:Like what,
Speaker:what does that mean?
Speaker:Investment.
Speaker:I think everything that you do for
Speaker:your business, you need to think about
Speaker:it as so, so you could look at the
Speaker:profit equation and say there's revenue
Speaker:minus expenses equals profit.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But when I think when you're a
Speaker:business owner, there's some
Speaker:things that are just like expenses
Speaker:you might say.
Speaker:It's like for example, I
Speaker:use Cajabi as my platform.
Speaker:And I could look at it as a straight
Speaker:cost, or I think about like, well,
Speaker:what does Cajabi offer that allows
Speaker:me to scale?
Speaker:So Cajabi is like a all-in-one
Speaker:kind of platform.
Speaker:So I get my website, I have my email
Speaker:marketing, I have my landing pages,
Speaker:I have my courses, and all of this is
Speaker:in one place, So if I'm spending like
Speaker:150 bucks a month on Cajabi, I'm spending
Speaker:less if I were gonna do all of those
Speaker:things separately.
Speaker:But I'm also spending less time
Speaker:because everything's all in one place.
Speaker:But then I have all my tools that
Speaker:are there, if I can master, like getting
Speaker:into Cajabi allowed me to go from just
Speaker:mentoring people to creating websites.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And to working on pipelines and
Speaker:helping people with courses because
Speaker:I learned how to do this myself.
Speaker:So every time I get a bill from
Speaker:Kajabi, every time I see it, every
Speaker:month, I feel happy.
Speaker:Like, yes.
Speaker:because I know I'm investing.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or you might invest in a virtual
Speaker:assistant, you so, you think
Speaker:about the time you might spend.
Speaker:So here's an example with a
Speaker:virtual assistant.
Speaker:So I wound up, signing up
Speaker:for, Working with different
Speaker:organizations and if you think about
Speaker:like how much they might charge so you
Speaker:can get some VAs from other parts
Speaker:of the world for like $9 an hour,
Speaker:I don't know what the US prices are.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:so just do the math let's say you're
Speaker:gonna work on a P D F, like in Canva or
Speaker:something, it might take you 10 hours,
Speaker:but if you think about it from your
Speaker:salary standpoint and how much you're
Speaker:worth per hour, this could be like
Speaker:a $10,000 P D F.
Speaker:if you have a va, it's like way less.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So When you're a business owner,
Speaker:you have to think about money
Speaker:differently and your relationship with
Speaker:money is different and you have to
Speaker:spend the money first in order to
Speaker:get the return.
Speaker:Got it.
Speaker:Everything that you do, it's so
Speaker:if you're thinking like, oh my gosh,
Speaker:I don't have a lot of money.
Speaker:Like when I first started my business,
Speaker:I was going through a horrible divorce.
Speaker:I lost all my money, all of it.
Speaker:I had $200 in the bank and my
Speaker:grandmother had passed not that
Speaker:long ago, not long be around that same
Speaker:time, and she left me, I don't remember
Speaker:exactly how much, but it was like,
Speaker:It was enough to cover my initial
Speaker:business expenses.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I could have taken that money and
Speaker:lived for like six months, you know,
Speaker:and I could have lived off of that,
Speaker:or I took that money and I paid for
Speaker:mentoring so I could learn the skills I
Speaker:needed to learn as a business owner.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I invested in a website and you'd
Speaker:dep appreciate this, and I invested in
Speaker:content creation from the get go.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I invested in.
Speaker:getting articles, and I invested
Speaker:in learning how to create videos.
Speaker:And from that standpoint, I
Speaker:grew my business at that point,
Speaker:literally from zero.
Speaker:I mean, I guess you could say 200
Speaker:s, not zero, but let's just say zero
Speaker:to 300,000 in the first 18 months.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's like my mindset changed,
Speaker:like when I was standing in front of
Speaker:my first opportunity I had right after I
Speaker:launched my website.
Speaker:I had a client who really wanted
Speaker:to work with me.
Speaker:Like they handed me a proposal and say,
Speaker:meter beat this, this job's yours.
Speaker:And it's like, you know what?
Speaker:I, I saw myself differently.
Speaker:I took a step back and I said, again,
Speaker:I was like really in the hole, and
Speaker:I was a single parent at the time.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I looked at their proposal, I'm
Speaker:like, Nope, this is not what's in
Speaker:the best interest of the client.
Speaker:I gave a different proposal.
Speaker:It I had to think like five times
Speaker:more than what the competitor did.
Speaker:And the clients were freaking out.
Speaker:They're like, oh my gosh, we're gonna
Speaker:have to break the, to work with Betsy.
Speaker:And I'm like, mm-hmm.
Speaker:And something came over me and
Speaker:this is a phrase I use all the time.
Speaker:Like, " No, that other person, that
Speaker:is an expense.
Speaker:It's an expense that you're gonna have.
Speaker:I'm not an expense to be managed.
Speaker:I'm an investment that will deliver
Speaker:a return."
Speaker:And they were like, "Whoa."
Speaker:Then they signed immediately
Speaker:on the spot.
Speaker:So it's about the mindset around like,
Speaker:I'm an investment.
Speaker:And so I have to invest in myself.
Speaker:I'm the product, I'm the product,
Speaker:I'm the service.
Speaker:I have to invest in myself and then
Speaker:I'll get a return.
Speaker:That's the key is, and then
Speaker:you're gonna think about things
Speaker:more creatively.
Speaker:I don't know if that answered your
Speaker:question or not.
Speaker:Well, it did that,
Speaker:more than that.
Speaker:It was great.
Speaker:I mean, that is so interesting
Speaker:to me cuz I like to, talk about
Speaker:things like, law.
Speaker:You know, investing in lawyers and
Speaker:they're thought of as expenses.
Speaker:Like, okay, this is something
Speaker:I have to do.
Speaker:I don't wanna do it, but I gotta do it.
Speaker:And it's risk avoidance and
Speaker:versus like, if you use lawyers
Speaker:strategically, to help you, put pieces
Speaker:in place that build that foundation so
Speaker:that you can grow.
Speaker:it is an investment, you know, investing
Speaker:in contracts, investing
Speaker:in content.
Speaker:and I have noticed in.
Speaker:Like proposals, like if you see
Speaker:something online and they'll have their
Speaker:prices and they'll say investment
Speaker:as opposed to price or cost.
Speaker:And I like that because it really is
Speaker:just thinking about it from, okay, this
Speaker:is something that will have a return
Speaker:on investment if I do my job right.
Speaker:You do your job right, it's a
Speaker:return on this and will help your
Speaker:business grow.
Speaker:I like that you used.
Speaker:Just the term investment instead
Speaker:of expenses.
Speaker:Things that we could think of that
Speaker:way, but I think it's the wrong way
Speaker:to think about it.
Speaker:I really like that explanation.
Speaker:That was fantastic.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Well, speaking of, attorneys though,
Speaker:like you're an unusual attorney,
Speaker:who's also a coach and so you, are a
Speaker:strategic partner.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:the problem that you might have is
Speaker:that your field on the whole is very
Speaker:much by the hour and very much commodity.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and it's like you get into the legal
Speaker:situation and they don't have like a
Speaker:big picture plan.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So the same things that I would
Speaker:recommend to my clients who are
Speaker:coaches is like, you need to have some
Speaker:sort of defined.
Speaker:Value that you're gonna create for a
Speaker:client at the end.
Speaker:Like, so if I were gonna work with
Speaker:you in, maybe in a previous iteration,
Speaker:it's like, "Okay, I wanna protect
Speaker:my intellectual property."
Speaker:it might be you would charge me
Speaker:$500 an hour, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker:Now my money's up in three hours.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Or you would say, "I'm gonna help
Speaker:you create a body of work that is
Speaker:monetizable.", And let's say your
Speaker:package is $10,000, but it's capped.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's a value, and I'm gonna
Speaker:create a different kind of outcome.
Speaker:Now, I could think about it
Speaker:differently, but most lawyers don't
Speaker:operate like as strategic partners.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They set themselves up because the legal
Speaker:field, that's why burnout is so bad.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:it's like by the hour, by the hour,
Speaker:and the client gets to the end.
Speaker:Like, I never.
Speaker:Ever, ever charged by the hour?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Maybe very rarely for like a one-off,
Speaker:like, If somebody needs like a one-off
Speaker:kind of thing, it's like, okay, before
Speaker:I sign up for this whole big program
Speaker:with you, like, can I just do a
Speaker:90 minute session?
Speaker:It's like, okay, fine.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah, I'll do that.
Speaker:But never charged by the hour.
Speaker:Ever.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ever.
Speaker:Because if you are by the hour, first
Speaker:off, I haven't been an hourly worker
Speaker:since I was, 21.
Speaker:Like, when was the last time I was
Speaker:an hourly worker?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You know, like, I'm not gonna go
Speaker:back and be an hourly worker ever.
Speaker:But when you're talking about, your
Speaker:mindset, it's your mindset influences
Speaker:the clients.
Speaker:Like, I'm an investment and
Speaker:therefore I'm gonna encourage you to
Speaker:be an investment.
Speaker:the thing that gives clients
Speaker:happiness is like, oh, you're promising
Speaker:a, transformation.
Speaker:that's different than I'm going
Speaker:to do X, Y, and Z and methodology.
Speaker:Methodology.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So you help people think about the way
Speaker:that they're pricing they're offering
Speaker:in terms of outcome versus inputs.
Speaker:I help them think about the value
Speaker:that they create so they can own their
Speaker:worth and they can price properly.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Based on the transformation that
Speaker:they're gonna create for the clients.
Speaker:That's meaningful to the clients.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then they invest themselves
Speaker:in themselves properly in order
Speaker:to deliver on that.
Speaker:I have a good story about the hourly.
Speaker:So, I worked with, IP-based
Speaker:businesses for many, many years.
Speaker:And, one of my big clients is
Speaker:in the market research phase.
Speaker:and then someone had gone over to
Speaker:another market research place and
Speaker:they're like, "Oh, I've worked with
Speaker:other lawyers, I have to explain
Speaker:everything to them, takes them forever
Speaker:to figure it out.
Speaker:I know that you know exactly how
Speaker:to do this well."
Speaker:I did.
Speaker:And it took me no time to, like, I.
Speaker:I can do this in my sleep.
Speaker:I can fix your problem completely
Speaker:in an hour.
Speaker:And I was charging by the hour, you
Speaker:and I fixed the problem immediately
Speaker:because I'd been doing what they
Speaker:needed for 10 years so my reward for
Speaker:that was, getting almost nothing.
Speaker:So
Speaker:So if you were a more junior person,
Speaker:it would take you in 20 hours
Speaker:and you would've made more money.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So you're penalizing yourself rather
Speaker:than if you can get it done an hour.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I just did an interview with
Speaker:an executive on my podcast.
Speaker:I knew he was saying like a lot
Speaker:of consultants are looking at
Speaker:like, here's the economic value.
Speaker:And he is like, you gotta understand
Speaker:the return on time.
Speaker:so in some ways is like, well I can
Speaker:take five hours to do this and it's
Speaker:gonna cost a less price, I'll get it
Speaker:done in an hour.
Speaker:And you could charge the premium
Speaker:for the speed,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, it, it is a tough one.
Speaker:And, you work with men and women, but
Speaker:for many women have trouble feeling like
Speaker:they're overcharging for things like
Speaker:this, like, I know that I could get
Speaker:that done, like, and be done by, time for
Speaker:lunch and how can I charge for that?
Speaker:but at the end of the day, what is
Speaker:the value to the client is really
Speaker:what matters there.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:I think men and women both
Speaker:struggle with, like, especially if
Speaker:you're a knowledge worker, and you're
Speaker:getting paid for your expertise,
Speaker:it's very hard to put a price tag on.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I see.
Speaker:Men and women equally struggle
Speaker:with that whole thing.
Speaker:But I think what women struggle
Speaker:with more is if somebody doesn't
Speaker:have money, then they feel bad for
Speaker:'em, where men don't care that much.
Speaker:women are like, oh, okay, well I,
Speaker:guess I'll discount it because I like
Speaker:you and I wanna help you, or Yeah.
Speaker:Let me do this for you for free.
Speaker:Like, we're much more codependent
Speaker:mm-hmm.
Speaker:From that standpoint.
Speaker:And men are really good at like, this
Speaker:is part of my paid program, and men
Speaker:are more aggressive in asking for the
Speaker:sale, more than, than women could be.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Oh, interesting.
Speaker:do you, do you group coaching or are
Speaker:they all individual?
Speaker:I
Speaker:just launched a group coaching
Speaker:experience.
Speaker:So I take people like through that
Speaker:whole transition, from like, I have an
Speaker:idea, I wanna launch it, I wanna move
Speaker:into this thought leadership space.
Speaker:So I do, there's some stuff that just
Speaker:requires one-on-one kind of stuff.
Speaker:So I do a lot of v i P days, like
Speaker:brand messaging kind of stuff, wording,
Speaker:copywriting and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker:that's more like one-on-one.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's not really something that
Speaker:lends itself to a group, but I've
Speaker:been very passionate about bringing
Speaker:groups together.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because of the power of being with
Speaker:other people who are in the same
Speaker:place that you are, the learning,
Speaker:and it's been really powerful.
Speaker:So I started this Purpose to
Speaker:Profits Academy, is what I call it.
Speaker:And the promise here is like, we're
Speaker:gonna get into really actionable
Speaker:kind of training to help you develop
Speaker:all the skillsets that you're gonna
Speaker:need over time.
Speaker:Because as.
Speaker:a consulting, a coaching business
Speaker:owner, you have to learn the skills.
Speaker:You didn't learn it, you know?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:If you were in corporate and
Speaker:how do you learn these skills?
Speaker:How do you learn copywriting?
Speaker:How do you how to write a headline?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Or a sales page, or how do you
Speaker:price yourself or how do you
Speaker:create a proposal?
Speaker:All those things.
Speaker:And it's been really powerful.
Speaker:I just launched it a few weeks ago.
Speaker:And it's already been amazing.
Speaker:Like the clients are able to bring the
Speaker:specific things to the table that they
Speaker:have questions on.
Speaker:And don't just trust my opinion, like
Speaker:hear all the other support and the
Speaker:transformations that are really cool.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Does, is that open enrollment
Speaker:or do you have like a, cohort
Speaker:that goes together at the same time?
Speaker:No, it's an open enrollment.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I decided it, this was like a
Speaker:passion project I just launched.
Speaker:It's, only like 2 97 a month.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And it's weekly coaching.
Speaker:Like right now the price is gonna
Speaker:be at that point.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I wanted to keep the price low because
Speaker:I wanna have like purpose-driven
Speaker:consultants and coaches together.
Speaker:And so I deliberately kept
Speaker:the price low and building those
Speaker:actionable skills.
Speaker:So we have weekly masterclass where
Speaker:it's like we have a content and then
Speaker:we have hot seats and conversations.
Speaker:More content.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's pretty cool.
Speaker:So people self-select in as
Speaker:purpose driven, like what if you just
Speaker:wanna make money?
Speaker:is that an opt place for you?
Speaker:Or,
Speaker:I'm not really the best fit because my
Speaker:belief is that the most sustainable,
Speaker:most scalable, most profitable
Speaker:business is the one that's aligned
Speaker:to who you are.
Speaker:and your passions.
Speaker:Like it's, if you're a mid-career
Speaker:person, like what's the point?
Speaker:If you just wanna make money, go
Speaker:somewhere else.
Speaker:Like, I'm not your girl.
Speaker:If you wanna make money doing what
Speaker:you love, I'm your girl, but I don't
Speaker:really wanna help.
Speaker:I feel like it's unethical in the
Speaker:consulting coaching space, to be honest.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:like, I'm not trying to be judgy
Speaker:on other people, if that's the way
Speaker:they wanna do it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:when you think about the sacred role of a
Speaker:consultant or coach, like we help ignite
Speaker:transformation in either organizations
Speaker:or people.
Speaker:So let's say I'm a consultant
Speaker:and I go into an organization that
Speaker:might be struggling.
Speaker:If I'm just in it for the paycheck,
Speaker:I'm not gonna take all of the issues
Speaker:seriously that.
Speaker:Employees and customers are gonna
Speaker:tell me, and I'm not doing justice.
Speaker:Like you can't invite people to
Speaker:focus groups and ask them to bear
Speaker:their souls and not take what they're
Speaker:telling you with, reverence it would
Speaker:be saying, do you wanna go to a doctor
Speaker:who's just in it for money without caring
Speaker:about the patient?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:do you wanna hire a coach who just wants
Speaker:to get famous, or do you wanna have
Speaker:a coach who cares about helping you?
Speaker:To me, the purpose-driven is an
Speaker:alignment with the client-centric, like
Speaker:a purpose-driven.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Client-centric service, they're
Speaker:all the same.
Speaker:You cannot have a purpose-driven
Speaker:business if you don't have somebody
Speaker:that you actually care about helping.
Speaker:Like when I talk to you on my
Speaker:podcast About.
Speaker:Intellectual property, you
Speaker:are right away.
Speaker:Like, I wanna help people who are
Speaker:experts and I wanna help women because
Speaker:I believe that women are all about,
Speaker:wealth in the hand of women, hands of
Speaker:women is going to make a difference
Speaker:in society.
Speaker:And so of course if I have all
Speaker:these options, like why would I
Speaker:go to someone who just like, oh, I'm
Speaker:a really smart.
Speaker:intellectual property attorney,
Speaker:please, here's my $500 an hour rate.
Speaker:Or do I wanna have someone that's
Speaker:like, wow, you really care about
Speaker:me, you care about my intellectual
Speaker:property, you care about me having
Speaker:wealth so that I could give back
Speaker:to the world.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and even planting the seed around
Speaker:how am I gonna give back to the world?
Speaker:why would I ever wanna go
Speaker:to anyone else?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I
Speaker:agree that, and that's nice.
Speaker:and they'll coming at it from that
Speaker:point of view as a group that
Speaker:they're all on the same page about
Speaker:that and making sure that they're
Speaker:helping people.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:So is there anything new in 2023 that
Speaker:you're seeing this different, you've
Speaker:been doing this, I think you said
Speaker:15 years, what's on the horizon in
Speaker:who's coming outta corporate now and
Speaker:how is it different from the people who
Speaker:are coming outta corporate pre
Speaker:pandemic, maybe.
Speaker:actually, those are two different
Speaker:questions that are kind of related.
Speaker:For people who are coming outta
Speaker:corporate right now, I think it's just
Speaker:we're seeing the residuals of the
Speaker:whole pandemic, post pandemic and people
Speaker:wanting more balance in their lives
Speaker:and, organizations.
Speaker:I've seen a difference
Speaker:in the past.
Speaker:I would say there was a shift in 2008
Speaker:and there's a shift now, before 2008.
Speaker:you had like this many customers and
Speaker:this many employees in it kind of match.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:2008 with a recession's, like
Speaker:okay, customers dropped off,
Speaker:then they dropped employees, and
Speaker:then when customers started coming
Speaker:back, they kept employees like this.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so now employees were working
Speaker:2, 3, 4 jobs.
Speaker:in the past.
Speaker:And there was no time to think
Speaker:and all of that.
Speaker:And then I think with the pandemic,
Speaker:it accelerated that whole thing
Speaker:the workloads are crazy, but then
Speaker:it's like companies are navigating
Speaker:the virtual workforce versus
Speaker:the live workforce.
Speaker:And I think that there's a shift from
Speaker:that standpoint.
Speaker:So I think that people
Speaker:are coming out.
Speaker:Are a little bit like battle
Speaker:fatigued.
Speaker:They're a tight, like in 2020, a
Speaker:lot of people are really energetic.
Speaker:Like, okay, I'm gonna take
Speaker:charge of this.
Speaker:I'm gonna invest in my website,
Speaker:all of this Right now, people have
Speaker:more economic uncertainty, there's
Speaker:more fear, and I think there's
Speaker:just a collective soul exhaustion.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:That's at a different level now.
Speaker:Like, so I think that from that
Speaker:standpoint, as it relates to business
Speaker:development, My favorite obsession.
Speaker:I'm obsessed with ai.
Speaker:I'm obsessed with chat.
Speaker:G P T I just discovered it
Speaker:yesterday, like
Speaker:literally yesterday.
Speaker:Like I've made it my, little
Speaker:assistant, you you know, my
Speaker:husband walks by and he's laughing.
Speaker:He is like, watching me, with chat
Speaker:G P T, and it's like, no, that's
Speaker:not what I want.
Speaker:I want this, you and I'm learning
Speaker:how to make chat, G B T B, my junior
Speaker:copywriter, oh, and my junior content
Speaker:creator, like talking about ip.
Speaker:that's actually an issue for you.
Speaker:it's like if people are creating a body
Speaker:of work, how do you differentiate
Speaker:between what chat cheap PTs creating
Speaker:versus what you're creating?
Speaker:But it's fascinating.
Speaker:I could say, I could write something,
Speaker:I'm like, Hey, could you rewrite
Speaker:this in the voice of Betsy And it,
Speaker:does my voice, I'm like, This is weird.
Speaker:how do you know my voice?
Speaker:So you
Speaker:fed it like your past writings,
Speaker:and then it kind of goes, okay,
Speaker:this is the way she generally
Speaker:write.
Speaker:How does it.
Speaker:It knows my writings.
Speaker:I did something, I played around
Speaker:with it once.
Speaker:It was like I took something I
Speaker:was working on.
Speaker:I'm like, can you rewrite this
Speaker:in The Voice of Betsy Jordan?
Speaker:And then I did that, and then it's
Speaker:like, you and I both know Carol Cox.
Speaker:So I'm like, can you rewrite it in The
Speaker:voice of Carol Cox?
Speaker:So speaking your brand and then
Speaker:rewrote it in Carol's language.
Speaker:And I was like, oh, that's so weird.
Speaker:I was like, little shifts between
Speaker:the two of us.
Speaker:like, this is fascinating.
Speaker:it's very fascinating.
Speaker:Even little things like, Hey, can you
Speaker:give me a script on how to confront
Speaker:my adult daughter who's living with
Speaker:me now and, how to ask her to help me
Speaker:know, clean up more.
Speaker:it's like, oh, well, and then it
Speaker:would just gimme a little script.
Speaker:I'm like, ah, this is pretty
Speaker:good, Mm-hmm.
Speaker:I think that that's gonna be a trend
Speaker:that we need to be paying attention to.
Speaker:I think that's gonna really shake up
Speaker:the marketing world and the content
Speaker:creation world in a very big way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:the reason it even came across my,
Speaker:desk, so to speak, because I To me,
Speaker:AI was just way outside of, I'm
Speaker:like, ah, I can't, after I was doing
Speaker:a legal M C L E, you know, training
Speaker:about the impact of ai, like the
Speaker:legal implications of ai, and they're
Speaker:describing all the things it could
Speaker:do, I'm like, it could do that.
Speaker:It could do that.
Speaker:So immediately had to go on like, yeah.
Speaker:And so now I'm obsessed too.
Speaker:I spent the afternoon, on
Speaker:chat, G P t.
Speaker:Oh my God.
Speaker:I asked Zach chat, g b t before
Speaker:our interview.
Speaker:I'm like, what are some good questions
Speaker:I could ask Aaron on my podcast.
Speaker:And it's like, Aaron Austin
Speaker:is an attorney and a business
Speaker:strategist who does X, Y, and Z.
Speaker:and so he gave me a bunch of ideas like,
Speaker:you what inspired you to become an
Speaker:an intellectual property attorney?
Speaker:Have you always worked for
Speaker:yourself or did work for a firm?
Speaker:what is intellectual property?
Speaker:what's the best way?
Speaker:It had all kinds of questions.
Speaker:Like I didn't necessarily ask you
Speaker:those questions.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But it's like, that was an interesting
Speaker:starting point.
Speaker:one of the things that came out during
Speaker:this training is because lots of law
Speaker:firms have already started using it,
Speaker:and Before we even really heard about
Speaker:it, cuz they use it for document
Speaker:production and, doing due diligence
Speaker:and all this stuff what it will be is
Speaker:like, you know, will it replace lawyers?
Speaker:It's like, well no, but lawyers who
Speaker:don't use it will be at a massive
Speaker:disadvantage.
Speaker:And that it may even be that it could
Speaker:be, you malpractice not to use it.
Speaker:Because what if you miss something,
Speaker:if you've got a thousand documents
Speaker:to look at and you use people instead
Speaker:of AI and you miss something, it's
Speaker:at malpractice.
Speaker:So, and I imagine.
Speaker:In other industries, because you can
Speaker:be more efficient and maybe, perform
Speaker:more quickly, more accurately, maybe
Speaker:charge less, that if you're not using
Speaker:it, that it will be a disadvantage.
Speaker:it's like someone not having a website
Speaker:if you're not using ai, you know?
Speaker:I think that that's interesting,
Speaker:because there's two flip sides.
Speaker:Like you can't really replace the
Speaker:expertise, but I worry that it's
Speaker:gonna make us dumb.
Speaker:I spent a lot of time thinking about
Speaker:like our interview.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker:obviously I approached you in
Speaker:the beginning to say, I want you
Speaker:on the show for a particular reason.
Speaker:But the creative process of trying
Speaker:to figure like, okay, what is it
Speaker:that I wanna say?
Speaker:is a risk factor, but that's
Speaker:a big thing.
Speaker:that's coming up.
Speaker:the initial point of this particular
Speaker:podcast is all around like,
Speaker:thinking about profit and how
Speaker:to, think about profit from a
Speaker:scale standpoint is it does create
Speaker:more efficiencies.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So that allows you to scale and if you
Speaker:don't have money to invest in assistance
Speaker:or if you are using assistance,
Speaker:it allows you to do that.
Speaker:I like that.
Speaker:Well, you did touch on like the AI.
Speaker:And IP and the conflicts there.
Speaker:But when you're working with your
Speaker:clients, and I know, developing
Speaker:thought leadership and content is
Speaker:part of what you help them do.
Speaker:do explicit questions about
Speaker:intellectual property come up?
Speaker:Like what are they thinking about
Speaker:building IP assets?
Speaker:Are they thinking about that journey
Speaker:from hourly to exit?
Speaker:what, happening around those issues?
Speaker:I look at everything like in a five
Speaker:step, you and I are process people.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:so To me, there's like five phases
Speaker:of your business.
Speaker:First, it's you gotta start the
Speaker:right business, then you gotta figure
Speaker:out your brand messaging position
Speaker:and your website and getting your
Speaker:website situated.
Speaker:And then you need to be in some sort
Speaker:of process where you know how to
Speaker:convert clients.
Speaker:And then the ultimate place
Speaker:is that thought leadership.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because that is where you scale
Speaker:and there's no other way to scale
Speaker:without content.
Speaker:there's no way that you're gonna
Speaker:be a premium brand position.
Speaker:You can't raise your fees because without
Speaker:content you're not gonna look
Speaker:like that expert.
Speaker:if without content, you can't
Speaker:really show up on social media.
Speaker:You can't really stand out.
Speaker:I have some clients who are naturally
Speaker:inclined in that way, but most of
Speaker:my clients are a little bit afraid
Speaker:of intellectual property of the
Speaker:vulnerability, you this is where the
Speaker:whole transition from corporate to
Speaker:this kind of stuff.
Speaker:It's like, well, I put my
Speaker:ideas out there.
Speaker:Like, I remember the first time I
Speaker:was creating videos, it was like, I
Speaker:was overwhelmed.
Speaker:Like my first video guy, I'll never
Speaker:forget this whole thing I went to, his
Speaker:place and I wound up staying with him
Speaker:and his wife, and before I left, he's
Speaker:like, okay, you're be doing scripts.
Speaker:you're gonna be doing scripts to
Speaker:the teleprompter.
Speaker:I'm like, no, no, no, Chad, I
Speaker:don't do that.
Speaker:Like, I'm just gonna be on the cuff.
Speaker:You know, I'm gonna be on the flight.
Speaker:And he's like, no, no, no, you're
Speaker:gonna do that.
Speaker:I'm like, Okay, fine.
Speaker:So I got there and I wrote some scripts.
Speaker:So I go downstairs and I read my
Speaker:script to him and he records and
Speaker:he is like, Nope, this is terrible.
Speaker:Go back up.
Speaker:I'm like, ah, okay.
Speaker:So I go back up and then I write
Speaker:another one.
Speaker:He is like, no, this is still terrible.
Speaker:Go back up.
Speaker:And then I come back down.
Speaker:He is like, okay, this is good.
Speaker:And I wrote like seven
Speaker:different scripts.
Speaker:We were hoping for three videos.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But once I got three.
Speaker:Videos up.
Speaker:I was able to get like seven that day.
Speaker:I learned something at that particular
Speaker:point, like how to quickly
Speaker:manifest the ideas.
Speaker:when my website launched, like I
Speaker:was landing clients, from other parts
Speaker:of the world, like people, I never
Speaker:met six figure engagements because
Speaker:of the power of my content.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Because I had videos, because I
Speaker:had all of this.
Speaker:So my whole global business is built on
Speaker:content, so, Content is essential, but
Speaker:the questions that I would ask like
Speaker:first, people have to be ready for it.
Speaker:But where the source of your
Speaker:content is, it's not even just in
Speaker:your formal business experience mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is in your personal experience.
Speaker:So we work on what's your story
Speaker:and like, what's your big idea?
Speaker:I have a client who is a cancer
Speaker:survivor, and at the same time when
Speaker:she had cancer, her dad had cancer
Speaker:and he had passed.
Speaker:And so she's already been a productivity
Speaker:kind of person.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But this experience ignited her.
Speaker:It's like, We don't have time to waste
Speaker:with inefficiencies.
Speaker:We need to get our work done
Speaker:fast so we can go live our lives.
Speaker:And so when she works on content,
Speaker:it's not like, okay, let's just talk
Speaker:about productivity.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's talk about let's say somebody
Speaker:might say well, what are five ways that
Speaker:you can maximize?
Speaker:how the service delivery or
Speaker:something like that.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Like, and the reason why this is so
Speaker:important is, just keep reinforcing
Speaker:this big idea.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:There's a story behind why wealth
Speaker:in the hands of women is important.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:if you're creating content, there's
Speaker:always like that reiteration of this
Speaker:bigger picture.
Speaker:it's not just about creating a
Speaker:body of work, it's about creating
Speaker:wealth so that you can give back to
Speaker:the world, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And keep bringing it back to that point.
Speaker:That's what I, I didn't do when I
Speaker:started my content and now my content
Speaker:is really clunky.
Speaker:So with my clients, I call it your
Speaker:controlling idea.
Speaker:Kind of like your thesis
Speaker:of your paper.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Have clarity on your thesis so that
Speaker:everything that you write about supports
Speaker:that main point.
Speaker:That's very nice.
Speaker:Well, this is a very meta podcast,
Speaker:I like to say.
Speaker:So it is about for female founders
Speaker:of F businesses who are building
Speaker:a business that they can hopefully
Speaker:sell someday.
Speaker:So do you have future plans for
Speaker:your business that may include
Speaker:selling?
Speaker:Yeah, my husband keeps talking
Speaker:about this one.
Speaker:I would love coaching on that
Speaker:one because it's hard for me to
Speaker:visualize, like, how would I sell?
Speaker:my business when it's so tied to
Speaker:my personality.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So that would be like, of course,
Speaker:who wouldn't want that at some point?
Speaker:I don't see myself retiring ever at
Speaker:a point, but the idea of having that
Speaker:opportunity, but I can't visualize it.
Speaker:So that's where I would refer to
Speaker:someone like you.
Speaker:Like, paint a picture for me.
Speaker:What would that look like?
Speaker:Well, I like
Speaker:to say that the things that help you
Speaker:scale your business are the same things
Speaker:that would help you sell your business
Speaker:in the future.
Speaker:So things that are decoupling the
Speaker:income from you, Betsy, you know,
Speaker:putting in the work.
Speaker:So developing frameworks,
Speaker:developing courses, having maybe
Speaker:additional coaches on, you know, who
Speaker:could, run the business after you,
Speaker:or having something that, if an.
Speaker:Bigger coaching company, Johnny, you
Speaker:know, tiny Robbins came over and said
Speaker:he wanted to buy your, framework to
Speaker:have something that you could sell.
Speaker:But those are the same things that
Speaker:you are doing anyway to grow your
Speaker:business today.
Speaker:So, You're laying them foundations
Speaker:for that already.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:it.
Speaker:That's a such an interesting picture.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:that would be an interesting, this
Speaker:thing to see is more like how do
Speaker:you paint that picture of what
Speaker:would it look like?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:For to sell a personal business.
Speaker:Franklin Covey did it, you know?
Speaker:they're not alive anymore.
Speaker:I'm sure Marshall Goldsmith's gonna
Speaker:have the same thing.
Speaker:He's got a legacy business.
Speaker:Brene Brown probably has a
Speaker:legacy business.
Speaker:Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker:Uhhuh.
Speaker:But it's like how to see yourself
Speaker:in that same way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:you're a parent.
Speaker:So we can look at our businesses as
Speaker:raising children that are going
Speaker:to be independent from us someday.
Speaker:Like how can this kid possibly be
Speaker:independent from us?
Speaker:But if we're raising them correctly then
Speaker:they will go on and succeed without us.
Speaker:think of it a little bit that way too.
Speaker:So, Interesting.
Speaker:All right, so you've mentioned
Speaker:your new, group coaching, program
Speaker:that you have launched Evergreen.
Speaker:So where can people find you, and if
Speaker:there is, freebie or something that
Speaker:you like people to
Speaker:sign up for, so my website is www
Speaker:dot Betsy Jordan and Jordan's with
Speaker:an Y, not an a.
Speaker:There's, you'll have Be People.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:There's a Betsy Jordan with an A out
Speaker:there who gets all my emails, dot com.
Speaker:so that's my website so you can find out
Speaker:more of my services.
Speaker:So if you go to that same U R L,
Speaker:but add services.
Speaker:So I have my signature coaching
Speaker:program, which is like my
Speaker:brand messaging.
Speaker:That's the one that everybody goes
Speaker:through if they're working with me
Speaker:more extensively.
Speaker:And that's really getting clarity
Speaker:on your, ideal business model, how
Speaker:you fit into the marketplace, how
Speaker:you stand out in the marketplace.
Speaker:And to me, that's the part where I've
Speaker:leaned in where other business
Speaker:mentors like gloss over, that's the
Speaker:really important foundational thing.
Speaker:and if you wanna find the academy,
Speaker:you just, betsy jordan.com/academy.
Speaker:Super fun.
Speaker:this is like my fun play area, you
Speaker:the other part's, like it's hard
Speaker:work, you I make my clients work
Speaker:cuz it's like a lot of contemplation,
Speaker:pulling stuff out.
Speaker:but I got a ton of freebies, so if
Speaker:you go under free resources, I have
Speaker:free templates, tools, I have a
Speaker:script on, how to articulate
Speaker:what you do.
Speaker:I have a, eCourses for free where I
Speaker:collected some of my content on, Imposter
Speaker:syndrome, like a lot of people deal with
Speaker:imposter syndrome.
Speaker:So I have the cure for imposter
Speaker:syndrome.
Speaker:It's a little mini course where
Speaker:I've collected my podcasts and some
Speaker:interviews and stuff like that.
Speaker:So that's a starting place there.
Speaker:So there's lots of freebies
Speaker:on my website.
Speaker:You can go to my YouTube channel.
Speaker:There's a ton over there.
Speaker:Or my Enough already podcast.
Speaker:That's another passion project.
Speaker:my two fun things, like obviously
Speaker:I still love Mike branding.
Speaker:I love branding so much because it's
Speaker:like, bringing in the inside
Speaker:of somebody out.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But it, it is a lot of work.
Speaker:So my play areas is my podcast The
Speaker:Enough Already Podcast and the
Speaker:Purpose to Profits Academy is more
Speaker:like my play areas.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:since you brought up imposter syndrome,
Speaker:I'm just gonna ask this quickly.
Speaker:So I have this theory that
Speaker:consultants, experts, don't
Speaker:think that they are ready for ip.
Speaker:Like, the big people.
Speaker:and to think that I'm ready for IP is
Speaker:maybe an imposter syndrome issue.
Speaker:do I have anything there?
Speaker:Oh, for sure.
Speaker:I think imposter syndrome hits
Speaker:every single time you're hitting
Speaker:a step change in your career.
Speaker:So to me, imposter syndrome is like,
Speaker:okay, do I have what it takes?
Speaker:Do I have what it takes?
Speaker:Well, that's because you're really
Speaker:dealing with the fear of the unknown.
Speaker:I've never done it before.
Speaker:it's like I don't really necessarily
Speaker:know how to do it, but I think
Speaker:what, I like what you say that is a
Speaker:good cure for the imposter syndrome.
Speaker:Well, first off, you have
Speaker:to normalize it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And you have to say like, imposter
Speaker:syndrome is actually the part that makes
Speaker:you wanna crawl under bed and never
Speaker:come out again.
Speaker:If you flip it into the light
Speaker:attribute, it's your integrity saying,
Speaker:I don't wanna make a promise that
Speaker:I can't deliver.
Speaker:I don't wanna do some of that.
Speaker:Like, it's not just about the fear of
Speaker:rejection or the vulnerability,
Speaker:but it's also like there's an
Speaker:integrity element.
Speaker:So, from imposter syndrome standpoint
Speaker:is like first off, you have to
Speaker:acknowledge it and you have to
Speaker:appreciate it.
Speaker:it's just trying to keep you safe,
Speaker:it's not a bad part of you.
Speaker:Like I'm absolutely not a fan when
Speaker:people would say all the chatter
Speaker:in your head.
Speaker:It's like, it's a gremlin, you
Speaker:need to eradicate.
Speaker:I'm like, well, that's
Speaker:a part of you.
Speaker:And if you eradicate, if you
Speaker:try to suppress the, bad part, you're
Speaker:gonna suppress the good part.
Speaker:And the good part is, I still have a
Speaker:vision for something bigger than where
Speaker:I'm at right now.
Speaker:So if you're worrying about
Speaker:intellectual property there's
Speaker:some part is like you normalize
Speaker:it, and you understand, well,
Speaker:what does it need?
Speaker:And it's like, well, maybe it
Speaker:needs someone like you who can help
Speaker:draw out of them.
Speaker:Or someone like me, we could draw
Speaker:out of you what your intellectual
Speaker:property is invalidate that.
Speaker:This is interesting.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and the thing is me, with ip, Is, I know
Speaker:I'm doing good IP or is when I'm the
Speaker:learner, there's a lot of times like
Speaker:I'm not creating ip, I'm channeling ip.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and it's like when I'm channeling
Speaker:the ip, that's the interesting stuff.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So then it's like, I just did a podcast
Speaker:on decoding the profit puzzle.
Speaker:You the difference between stable
Speaker:profits, sustainable profits, and
Speaker:scalable profits.
Speaker:And they're different
Speaker:kind of thing.
Speaker:And it hasn't really gotten like
Speaker:huge hits cause I think people
Speaker:like hearing more from me about like
Speaker:strengths and how to communicate value.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But still I have that mindset, but
Speaker:even though if it didn't perform as
Speaker:well as maybe all the other ones, like
Speaker:I learned something very different.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That really prepped me for
Speaker:our conversation is I'm very clear
Speaker:on the difference between this the
Speaker:scalable thing.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That I never really thought about.
Speaker:Like I was all about the sustainable, I
Speaker:want predictability, stable profitability
Speaker:is one, but sustainable.
Speaker:Like, I wanna be in this over the
Speaker:long term, but it's like having
Speaker:that new vision.
Speaker:so it's like creating that
Speaker:podcast, it's like, okay, fine.
Speaker:it's not my best.
Speaker:It's not gonna be like my seminal
Speaker:one, but I learned something.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think if I were gonna talk
Speaker:to anybody, Who's listening about the
Speaker:imposter syndrome is, I would go back
Speaker:to what you say is you have stuff in
Speaker:your head, you just have to manifest it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:In order to make intellectual
Speaker:property.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But I think that the other thing
Speaker:is, is that you're the first learner.
Speaker:It's interesting for you, it'll
Speaker:be interesting for other people.
Speaker:And if you just go and put stuff
Speaker:out there, like the beauty about
Speaker:intellectual property, especially
Speaker:if you do a blog or a podcast YouTube
Speaker:channel, like there's always
Speaker:another day, right?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:Or it's like, okay, well that one was
Speaker:a bust, or like that one was a hit.
Speaker:You never know what's gonna
Speaker:be a hit, but go with what's
Speaker:interesting, you And you'll learn,
Speaker:say, the fastest way to continue
Speaker:to develop your expertise is to
Speaker:create more content around it, doing
Speaker:research around it, putting it out into
Speaker:the world, getting feedback on it.
Speaker:not only the perception of your
Speaker:expertise, but the actual increase
Speaker:of your expertise, from continuing
Speaker:to create.
Speaker:there's like a book I would
Speaker:recommend is, I would recommend Big
Speaker:Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, if you
Speaker:wanna get over it.
Speaker:so what, Elizabeth Gilbert says
Speaker:is, ideas are energetic forms
Speaker:that are waiting to be manifest.
Speaker:And they're looking for a human
Speaker:collaborator to make it manifest.
Speaker:if you don't say yes to the idea, the
Speaker:idea's gonna move on to somebody else.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so it's like at the ideas.
Speaker:Is like almost a separate entity
Speaker:that you could do a little dance with,
Speaker:then it's fun.
Speaker:It's like I'm having a relationship
Speaker:with my ideas.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's not like, oh, it's so attached
Speaker:to me, and it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker:this is my ideas.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's like, no, the idea is separate
Speaker:from me and I'm having fun with
Speaker:it, and I'm just bringing it to life.
Speaker:Like again, I.
Speaker:The best content is gonna be the one
Speaker:that you channel not necessarily create.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So the more you're in your head, the
Speaker:less interesting it's gonna be
Speaker:for you and for your audience.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Agreed.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Nice little bonus at the end there.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Betsy.
Speaker:Thank you, Erin.
Speaker:It was so much fun being on your show,
Speaker:and I'm so excited about what you do.
Speaker:I'm fascinated by everything that you
Speaker:say and I cannot recommend you
Speaker:enough to anybody who's working on,
Speaker:really monetizing their body of work.
Speaker:You have the right heart, the right
Speaker:mind, you've got the whole package.
Speaker:So thank you for having me
Speaker:on the show.
Speaker:Well, thank
Speaker:you.
