E17: The 6 to 7 Figure Transition [Predictability] with Jessica Fearnley

Erin Austin: 00:01:07

All right.

Erin Austin: 00:01:08

Well, welcome to the hourly to exit podcast.

Erin Austin: 00:01:11

I am so excited to have Jessica Fernley here with me today.

Erin Austin: 00:01:15

Thank you, Jessica, for joining me.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:17

Thank you, Erin for the invite.

Erin Austin: 00:01:20

I am very excited about this episode.

Erin Austin: 00:01:22

First, I'm gonna let you introduce yourself to the audience.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:27

Awesome.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:28

Um, so hi everyone.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:29

My name is Jessica Fearnley.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:30

I am a business coach for consultant women.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:34

So in particular, I help women who sell consulting to corporate firms.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:38

Um, I help them transition their business from six figures with them

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:42

as the solo consultant who has booked themselves out- it's a wonderful feeling,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:47

isn't it?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:47

When you are popular, you're in demand, your clients really trust you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:50

But, typically with my clients, when we start working together, they have just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:54

realized the crunch point of being.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:01:57

Overbooked and overwhelmed

Erin Austin: 00:01:59

Yes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:02:00

I helped them transition to no longer being the solo consultant,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:02:03

but the CEO of their consulting business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:02:05

My brand is seven figure consultant.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:02:08

It's a super awesome way to serve.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:02:10

I love my clients and I love what I do.

Erin Austin: 00:02:13

Yeah.

Erin Austin: 00:02:13

I mean, there are a million things that we could talk about today with

Erin Austin: 00:02:16

Jessica, cuz she knows soup to nuts about how to build a business from

Erin Austin: 00:02:20

that six figure to seven figure level.

Erin Austin: 00:02:23

A lot of our audience will have hit a revenue ceiling.

Erin Austin: 00:02:26

There's only so much we can bill when, depending on what our, our model is.

Erin Austin: 00:02:33

And so we are gonna talk about business models and revenue models today.

Erin Austin: 00:02:38

But first I wanted to talk about something.

Erin Austin: 00:02:42

I am in awe, which is so interesting to me.

Erin Austin: 00:02:45

You know, one of the things that a lot of my audience is still

Erin Austin: 00:02:47

trying to crack, myself included, is this nut called LinkedIn.

Erin Austin: 00:02:52

And you have absolutely cracked that nut, you know, including

Erin Austin: 00:02:56

being a LinkedIn top voice for entrepreneurship and small business.

Erin Austin: 00:03:00

I'd love to hear more about that journey for you, how you did it, the

Erin Austin: 00:03:04

benefits that you're seeing in your business from it, and any tips you can.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:08

Oh, sure.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:09

So, yeah, I, I have been so fortunate with my relationship with LinkedIn, and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:15

just the way that they have given me a platform for the issues that I care about.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:19

So initially, when I got the LinkedIn top voice, I was talking a lot about closing

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:24

the gender pay gap for consultant women.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:27

Um, and that that's a drum I'm gonna beat for the whole of my life.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:30

and I'm, I'm so passionate about women and kind of enabling women

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:34

and empowering them to create wealth and opportunities for themselves

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:37

and the people around them, because there is this amazing ripple effect.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:41

When women start businesses and they employ other women.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:44

And even through the work that they do quite often, it has a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:47

transformative impact on their clients.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:49

Like the world just becomes a better place.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:51

so to be honest, I, wasn't looking for the top voice award when it found me and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:03:58

I was probably more surprised than anyone.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:00

But the thing that I think was really helpful for me, and you'll

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:04

probably go, oh, was showing up on LinkedIn, come rain or shine.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:09

I was posting on LinkedIn.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:11

I actually did a couple of stints where I did daily posting, I

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:14

think for around six months.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:16

And I was.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:18

Uh,

Erin Austin: 00:04:18

gasp that you get

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:19

I know , I know it's not everyone wants to hear, but the thing

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:23

is, it depends on who you are as a person, because, , for me, like if I wasn't a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:28

coach and probably if you'd have asked me when I was 18, would you wanna be

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:31

able, would've said I wanna be a writer.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:33

And like, I am a bit of a content machine because I love to write and words

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:38

just flow out of me when I'm writing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:39

Like once, once I make it sound like this epic thing, but I've, I've

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:43

written 20,000 words in a week before.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:45

Because when you tap into like that, Thing you, and I think that's the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:49

thing, like in your content, like find the thing that's like, you're never

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:53

gonna shut up about, because that really does make a huge difference.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:04:57

But yeah, I'd, I'd done a stint earlier that year kind of posting every day on

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:01

LinkedIn for about six months and not just posting, but engaging and not just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:06

being like, oh, thanks for sharing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:08

But like really engaging, like with my heart and kind of, everything that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:13

I saw that I cared about just like really writing like a proper response

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:17

sometimes like 20, 30, 40 words.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:20

And I remember thinking at the time, like being a bit of a loser here, just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:24

like really writing up, but like the thing is when you engage like that, um,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:28

it does, it does push your rankings up.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:31

So actually, there is a LinkedIn tool that you are able to use and, um, it

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:36

tells you how you rank compared to other people in the same industry.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:40

And at the point that I got the LinkedIn top voice, I was ranking in the top 1%

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:44

for management consultants and, I didn't really know that I was, I was just kind

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:49

of doing it out of curiosity, you know, with my posting and my engaging and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:52

just kind of enjoying it, which is, I think, you know, what we should be doing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:05:56

But yeah, I think it it really is just a question of showing up and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:00

caring about what you care about and.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:03

I'm so fortunate to be in a business where like the things that I really care about

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:06

converge totally, with the work that I do.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:09

And so, and I'm sure that will be true for a lot of people listening,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:12

So that would be my advice.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:14

Like there is no kind of magic formula, like, you know, in, in a sense, I don't

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:19

know how I did it because I wasn't trying, but I think it's a really

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:22

good example of whatever you're doing, just do it with your whole heart.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:26

I've kind of followed that my entire life, cuz I'm that kind of person.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:30

If I like something, I love it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:32

If I don't like something, I can't stand it, you know, just like show

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:35

up with your heart and like give it 110%, and just kind of be led to

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:41

the things that are meant for you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:42

I think that's why I would say.

Erin Austin: 00:06:44

oh, that's lovely.

Erin Austin: 00:06:45

I love that.

Erin Austin: 00:06:46

Uh, so, well, that's something to think about.

Erin Austin: 00:06:48

I, I, every day, including weekends, just outta curiosity.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:52

No

Erin Austin: 00:06:53

okay.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:54

LinkedIn doesn't happen at the weekend, surely.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:06:57

No, I was very strict Monday to Friday, I think.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:00

And like, to be honest, it didn't take up a lot of my time sometimes I would like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:04

batch write them so I had stuff to say in advance, so it would be like 10 minutes

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:08

in the morning, just post it and get all the hashtags and all that kind of thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:12

You don't need loads, maybe 4, 5, 6.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:14

and then.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:15

Post it, leave it all day and then come back and engage on

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:19

the comments in the evening and do some other engaging as well.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:21

So it was probably like 10, 15 minutes in the morning at like 30

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:25

minutes in the evening, and then all that space in between to just let

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:29

the algorithm do the work for you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:31

That really is the smart way to do social media, I think.

Erin Austin: 00:07:34

right.

Erin Austin: 00:07:34

Very good.

Erin Austin: 00:07:35

I will say I do feel a little intimidated by the increase in the word count.

Erin Austin: 00:07:40

Since I guess it was a year ago.

Erin Austin: 00:07:42

I can't remember when it happened, where, you know, like suddenly you feel the

Erin Austin: 00:07:45

need to fill up every, you know, all the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:47

You really don't need to, if you can say it, like I used

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:50

to find it slightly frustrating that there was only, was it 1500 characters.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:54

It wasn't enough for me, but then I, you know, I'm, I'm like too wordy if anything.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:07:58

Um, but yeah, I think never feel like you have to write this epic long thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:02

I think people get frustrated when.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:04

Like posts just become formulaic.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:06

And everyone just does the same thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:08

And I, you know, I get stuff in my newsfeed now where I'm just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:11

like, oh, I've already seen like a hundred posts like this.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:14

Like, Ugh.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:15

Um, you know, it's not about going viral.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:08:17

It's about showing up regularly and talking to your people.

Erin Austin: 00:08:20

nice.

Erin Austin: 00:08:21

Well, I like that.

Erin Austin: 00:08:22

All right.

Erin Austin: 00:08:22

You you've re-energized me cuz uh, I, I come and go.

Erin Austin: 00:08:26

I really do.

Erin Austin: 00:08:27

Sometimes I'm totally in and sometimes like, okay, let me do this.

Erin Austin: 00:08:30

So I like that.

Erin Austin: 00:08:31

So thank you so much.

Erin Austin: 00:08:32

So to our topic of business models and revenue models, so I'm just

Erin Austin: 00:08:37

gonna give a little background to our audience about a business model.

Erin Austin: 00:08:41

And revenue models.

Erin Austin: 00:08:42

So they are used interchangeably often, but they are different.

Erin Austin: 00:08:46

And so first I'm gonna talk about business model.

Erin Austin: 00:08:49

So that describes how your company generates value for your clients.

Erin Austin: 00:08:54

So you may do it through one-on-one services, you may

Erin Austin: 00:08:57

do it through group coaching.

Erin Austin: 00:08:58

You may do it through an online course.

Erin Austin: 00:09:01

So that's how you deliver value to your client.

Erin Austin: 00:09:04

Versus your revenue model is how you get paid for delivering that value.

Erin Austin: 00:09:10

So if we wanna talk about that one-on-one business model, there

Erin Austin: 00:09:13

are multiple ways to have revenue models under your business model.

Erin Austin: 00:09:16

So you may bill hourly, you may have a productized service, or

Erin Austin: 00:09:21

you may have value based pricing.

Erin Austin: 00:09:23

So all of these are variables that we can work with that affects generally

Erin Austin: 00:09:28

the revenue in your business, as well as the profit in your business and your

Erin Austin: 00:09:31

ability to scale and someday, sell your.

Erin Austin: 00:09:35

So, uh, this is the hourly to exit podcast.

Erin Austin: 00:09:38

So I am going to ask Jessica, you know, in that continuum from hourly to exit where

Erin Austin: 00:09:46

you're trying to build a business that can scale and hopefully sell some day, we're

Erin Austin: 00:09:49

looking to build assets in our business and exclusivity and predictability.

Erin Austin: 00:09:54

So where does the revenue model and the business model fit into that continu?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:00

I think that's a really great thing to be asking and.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:04

It's clear from the, the title of your podcast, Erin, but like, I, I

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:08

always advise clients to move away from hourly pricing where they can,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:13

I think that's really important.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:14

And like, I can illustrate this with a literal example, that happened to a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:18

client of mine, um, a few months ago.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:20

And what happened was.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:21

She priced out the work that she was going to do with the client and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:25

it was on an hourly rate and they agreed how long it was gonna take.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:30

And so she did the work actually found that she'd like quoted for kind

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:33

of four days and it took one day.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:36

So then she filled out her time sheet and the client said, oh,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:40

it's only taken you one day.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:41

In that case, you get a quarter of the money.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:44

And she was like, There's not really anything I can do about this.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:48

Ken is there and I was like, well, It was kind of a flawed construct

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:54

from the beginning, because that is literally the thing you get

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:56

penalized for being efficient.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:10:57

And like, if you, with that kind of model, if you want to be paid more

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:01

than in theory, you drag your feet.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:04

But for women in my audience, that isn't really something that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:06

appeals because it's not about going slow to maximize your value.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:10

It shouldn't be about that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:12

So I will always say priced by value.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:16

Um, and more than that, I think priced by return.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:20

So, if you understand, like the impact that your work can do.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:24

And very often for my clients, there is, there is like a literal number.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:27

Like they could probably make it into a percentage in terms of like money

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:32

that they, that the company wouldn't have earned, that they haven't earned,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:35

um, waste that would've happened that they've managed to avoid.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:39

But also some of these other things like, um, employee engagement, um, High staff

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:44

turnover being reduced by percentages.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:47

It's really, really important to be able to understand the value of what

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:51

you do, because people don't just hire you because they like you and you don't

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:54

just do the work cuz you like them.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:56

There's a business rationale for a lot of this stuff.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:11:59

So I think you are an amazing advantage if you understand that going in, because

Jessica Fearnley: 00:12:04

it just means that, you know, like what the bargaining chips are gonna be,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:12:08

if I can put it like that.

Erin Austin: 00:12:09

Right.

Erin Austin: 00:12:10

Absolutely.

Erin Austin: 00:12:11

Yeah.

Erin Austin: 00:12:11

I mean, as a, a lawyer, I mean, certainly we fall into the hourly billing trap.

Erin Austin: 00:12:16

I mean, it is the model in the legal industry, of course.

Erin Austin: 00:12:20

And, you know, and I have the ability to, to charge differently.

Erin Austin: 00:12:22

And I do, and I, I have some retainer base and some flat fee

Erin Austin: 00:12:26

based, but I have on occasion still.

Erin Austin: 00:12:29

And I promise myself to never do it again, do some hourly work.

Erin Austin: 00:12:35

And I had that very, you know, very similar experience last year,

Erin Austin: 00:12:40

actually, where, um, Have worked with this client like repeatedly.

Erin Austin: 00:12:45

And I kind of just know their business and know the industry and

Erin Austin: 00:12:48

they just know that I can just go in and get something done very quickly.

Erin Austin: 00:12:53

Whereas if they go to someone else who's not familiar with the

Erin Austin: 00:12:56

industry, then they have all this background and blah, blah, blah.

Erin Austin: 00:12:59

And so like, and I would blame them hourly.

Erin Austin: 00:13:02

So , they're very efficient.

Erin Austin: 00:13:04

I turn this thing around in an hour.

Erin Austin: 00:13:06

I'm like, oh my God.

Erin Austin: 00:13:07

Like what?

Erin Austin: 00:13:08

You know?

Erin Austin: 00:13:09

And it was in order for them to, you know, get an engagement that was worth, you

Erin Austin: 00:13:14

know, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Erin Austin: 00:13:16

I'm I kind help them figure it out.

Erin Austin: 00:13:18

And I'm like, okay, that's, let's not do that again.

Erin Austin: 00:13:22

So yes, that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:23

Yeah, well, exactly.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:25

And, uh, that's, that's literally why I, I have a thing about hourly

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:29

rates is that like, it can work out great for the client, but it usually

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:33

doesn't work out great for you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:34

And so, and, and especially when you, when you work in the way that we do,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:39

um, we're very small changes can make a huge impact to someone's bottom.

Erin Austin: 00:13:44

yeah.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:44

Like, I dunno, I'm, I'm sure this is true for you

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:47

as well, Erin, but like clients who've worked with me have had like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:50

a 1400% return on their investment.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:53

And like, you can't even say that cuz people are just like,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:56

what does that even mean?

Erin Austin: 00:13:57

Yeah, like get the calculator out.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:13:59

exactly, but it's, it's just kind of, you know, people

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:02

are gonna have such a benefit.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:03

So, and when you are in that kind of work, you need to make sure that actually you

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:07

are being adequately compensated for the benefit that you bring to that client.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:12

So if you can make them an absolute ton more money, it's reasonable for like a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:17

percentage of that to come back to you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:20

And that needs to be reflected in your pricing, or maybe you do like a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:24

profit share or something like that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:25

So that it's, it's more kind of obvious, but I, I just think we need to, first

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:29

of all, Be really clear about actually, where does that value come from?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:34

And that kind of links to a second thing that I'd love to say, which,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:36

and again, this is gonna be a second unpopular thing for me to say, but

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:40

almost the, the, the quickest way to increase the revenue coming into your

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:45

business is not to go and get a ton more clients, but is to raise your prices.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:50

And everyone always goes, oh,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:52

not

Erin Austin: 00:14:53

Yes.

Erin Austin: 00:14:54

they will do it.

Erin Austin: 00:14:55

Yes.

Erin Austin: 00:14:55

I know.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:57

But it is really linked to sort of understanding

Jessica Fearnley: 00:14:59

your value and especially from your client's point of view so often,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:03

and I think women do this a ton.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:04

Like we don't charge enough.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:06

And because of that, you then have to take on a lot of clients in

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:09

order to hit your revenue target.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:12

But in this scenario that we've been talking about where actually you

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:15

are completely booked up and then it's like, well, like the number of

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:19

hours you have available times like the hourly rate that you charge that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:22

becomes the maximum that you can make.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:24

It's like this fixed ceiling in the business and you

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:26

can't do anything about it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:28

So the way that we can get away from that is starting to price by value, but also

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:33

to raise that price in the first place.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:35

And I think the two kind of go hand in hand, because once you start to understand

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:38

the value that your services really do

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:41

have for your clients, you have to raise your prices.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:44

You can't just charge a hundred dollars an hour for something

Jessica Fearnley: 00:15:47

like that, it doesn't make sense.

Erin Austin: 00:15:48

Right.

Erin Austin: 00:15:49

Well, that brings us to another element of building that

Erin Austin: 00:15:52

exclusivity into our business, which is like, how do we stand out?

Erin Austin: 00:15:56

How do we not be viewed as commodity so that we aren't

Erin Austin: 00:15:59

subject to commodity pricing?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:01

Mm.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:02

Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:02

Because that is a really, really important part of it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:06

Because if your clients don't see the value in what they do, then, like,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:09

if things get a bit complicated, you'll be the first one to go.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:12

But again, I think it's really, really important that you, you see.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:16

What you do in the big picture of what your client is trying to achieve.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:20

So if you help them with their core objectives, they're never

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:23

gonna get rid of you because they need you in order to survive.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:26

And I think for my clients, they work with corporate firms and it's really important

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:31

to remember that actually there's a massive hierarchy in corporates and like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:35

the people that they are talking to,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:38

they will have their own set of objectives, they will have their

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:40

own set of pressures, they are accountable to other people.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:42

Even at sea level, they have massive accountability cuz they

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:46

need to be like proving value to the corporation all the time.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:50

So if you can understand that and really speak their language, it's not

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:53

about them kind of making you feel good by hiring you or giving you an

Jessica Fearnley: 00:16:57

opportunity to play around with some stuff, cuz you really feel like doing it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:00

If you can show and like understand for yourself, what you do is life or death for

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:04

this organization, that is always going to be the way to, like, I don't wanna

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:09

say embed because I'm not really about like the kind of coaching or consulting

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:13

where you make yourself indispensable because you wanna stay forever.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:17

And for a lot of my clients, sometimes there is like a long term role of

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:21

three to five years that they can play in an organization very productively.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:24

But I don't think that we necessarily have to do that by design.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:27

I think that really, when you understand, like the bigger things that play and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:31

you understand the little sections of their things that you can be involved

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:35

in, there's a very clear start and end point in those kinds of situations.

Erin Austin: 00:17:40

Well, tell me how do your clients typically come to you?

Erin Austin: 00:17:44

What are they feeling?

Erin Austin: 00:17:45

What's the pain that they're feeling that they go, okay.

Erin Austin: 00:17:47

I need to go and talk to Jessica.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:50

Usually it's just a feeling of burnout and just, or, or

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:53

like burnout is coming and a lot of them have been through burnout already.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:17:57

So one of the, one of the key things, one of the key stories that I tell about

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:00

myself and my life is that, um, when I was 27, I had like huge burnout, probably

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:06

a breakdown, um, in my corporate career.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:08

And it was kind of like, Just, it happened incrementally, but I was

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:12

living this amazing life in London.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:14

I was working in this organization where our office was sort of

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:17

20 floors above the river thas.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:19

We were right on the bank of the tha.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:21

And we used to joke quite a lot and say, you know, when you get sick of this

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:24

view, then it's time for you to leave because you really, you could see like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:27

the whole of London, it was amazing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:29

Um, but like, it, it just, wasn't a lifestyle that was working for me

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:33

and commuting didn't work for me.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:35

And now I have my own business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:36

I, I work exclusively from home.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:38

I very rarely leave my, my home.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:42

Um, and actually that's a way of working, which, you know, 12 years

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:46

on, it's still what I would choose rather than going into an office.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:49

So kind of doing nine till five in an organization like that, it just, it really

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:53

didn't like fit with who I am as a person.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:55

But like one of the things I think that draws my clients to me is that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:18:59

like, they realize that they may have had a similar situation and I

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:03

I've also sort of been through that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:05

So I understand it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:06

And you know, they don't have to feel like it's this big thing to be ashamed of.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:11

It's more just, but I think once you have had, once you've been through burnout,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:15

you kind of, you start to see the burnout cycle in your life, and it's quite scary.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:21

Um, when you get into a situation where you're like, I feel the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:25

burnout could happen again.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:27

And it's a really funny thing because I have been.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:30

In situations where I've wondered like, oh gosh, am I gonna burn out again?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:33

And like, it re it is never happened again, the way it did that, like time

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:37

when I was 27, but the fear of it, like the first, I think in the first few years

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:42

when you're kind of recovering and you're starting to do life a bit differently.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:46

that can be a huge drive for people to reach out to me because they're just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:50

like, I've been through this already.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:52

It was really horrible.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:52

It was really scary.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:53

I don't wanna go through this again.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:55

but I think in terms of what's going on in the business very often, they

Jessica Fearnley: 00:19:58

are that solo consultant and like, we like to be needed don't we?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:03

And so we can go to town and, you know, like booking ourselves absolutely solid.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:07

So like it's a common theme, um, with my clients that they're just like, I

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:12

thought all my problems would go away when I became a six figure business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:16

And now I'm a six figure business, but I hate my life and I feel like I'm drowning.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:21

And, and that's, that's a really important place to get to because

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:25

we can just feel like we have to say yes to all the opportunities.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:28

There's so much mindset that goes on, um, in getting our first

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:32

kind of six figures in revenue.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:34

Um, and I have absolutely kind of fallen down all of those holes as well.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:38

I think in my journey over the last eight.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:41

But I think it's that real feeling of like, it can't go on like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:45

this and I'm building something that I don't wanna be a part of.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:48

And that just, that was never part, you know, if you're gonna spend your,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:52

your time and really it's, you know, it's years of our lives, it matters.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:56

You've got to enjoy what you're building.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:20:58

And maybe there's like a, there was a big vision for what it

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:01

was gonna be in the first place.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:02

But the reality of it is like, It's just not as fun as they thought

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:06

it was gonna be, because it just requires them to be present.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:09

And as soon as they step away, the business stops making money

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:12

because they are the only source of that revenue being generated.

Erin Austin: 00:21:15

Mm, is it often the problem that they don't have any scale

Erin Austin: 00:21:20

or any leverage in their business?

Erin Austin: 00:21:22

Is that usually kind of why they are where they are?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:25

Yeah.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:25

And I think there can like, so something that people nearly always say is, oh,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:30

I hired someone once and it was awful.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:32

I never wanna do it again.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:34

And like, if, you know, if they live and die by that, then like there's

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:37

not a lot I can do to help them.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:39

There are other ways that you can leverage and scale your business, obviously.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:43

Um, like, you know, by looking at doing group programs,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:46

thinking about doing a course.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:48

You know, there's all kinds of creative things that you can do.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:51

Creating products, licensing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:53

But I, one of the key things that I work on with my clients is starting

Jessica Fearnley: 00:21:56

to build a team for them to help, not just with the operational support in

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:01

the business, but with the delivery.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:03

and what that looks like for each person that I work with is completely different

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:08

because I don't like to kind of say, this is how everyone has to do it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:13

So you need to do it too.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:14

Like, it's really important to me to understand like how people are feeling,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:18

um, what shape they want things to.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:21

How involved they want to be like some, some clients are

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:24

like, oh, I hate delivery.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:25

I'm so over delivery.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:26

I just wanna step out of it completely.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:28

But with quite a few of them, like they do want to retain that ability to be

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:33

part of something and sort of keep their hand in, keep their skills current,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:36

but it's kind of more of a portfolio.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:38

Like they wanna be in on the fun, like exciting projects.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:42

And I, I sometimes call it like having a boring department who

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:45

get to do all the other stuff.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:47

Because really, it's not boring for some people like that is like their major

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:51

strength, but also for some people they're a much more junior point in their career.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:56

So it's, it's wonderful experience and it's work.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:58

They're actually quite happy to do.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:22:59

But I think a key thing for my clients is they're quite often, they've

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:02

fallen out of love with what they do, and they've got a bit bored and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:05

it's starting to feel a bit stale.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:06

And I think that's always a sign that we're ready for.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:09

The next challenge.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:10

We're ready to sort of kick it up a notch.

Erin Austin: 00:23:12

Right.

Erin Austin: 00:23:13

So I imagine, I mean, you did mention those who you probably can't work with,

Erin Austin: 00:23:16

who are just kind of no employees, no way, but even those who are willing to have a

Erin Austin: 00:23:21

team, they understand the value of that.

Erin Austin: 00:23:23

They're willing to dive in.

Erin Austin: 00:23:24

I imagine there's still a lot of fear surrounding that as well.

Erin Austin: 00:23:29

I mean, cuz for some people it's not that they.

Erin Austin: 00:23:32

Are against hiring, but it just seems like the, the legal issues and the

Erin Austin: 00:23:37

HR issues and the, you know, like how you know, and that, it just

Erin Austin: 00:23:41

seems a little bit overwhelming.

Erin Austin: 00:23:42

So what kind of resistance do you get when you talk about creating

Erin Austin: 00:23:46

teams and how you overcome them?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:49

Oh, just everything imaginable from like,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:52

I don't really wanna have a team.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:54

Um, I like doing the work myself.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:57

Like it's hard for me to trust someone.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:23:58

And I think often because my clients tend to be high achieving women, we

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:03

have gone through school and university and we have ticked all the boxes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:07

We've got the grades, you know, we've been to the universities

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:10

we were supposed to go to.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:11

We've done everything kind of on our own merit in our own credentials.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:15

And same in corporate careers, you can, you know, have all the kind

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:19

of contacts in the right places and like rise the corporate ladder and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:22

feel very self-sufficient in that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:24

Whereas as soon as you start to bring other people into a business, then

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:28

it's like, what if they mess it up?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:30

What if they can't do it the way that I do it?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:32

And it, it can be a real challenge.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:35

I think one of the big challenges is particularly that clients get

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:38

very attached to the business owner.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:40

Especially if you've branded around your name and you've always been, they

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:44

just love the fact they can phone you up

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:45

and there's a real personal relationship there.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:47

There can be resistance like from the client and be like, you're changing stuff.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:51

We don't like this.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:52

And, you know, Sometimes you can transition a client

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:55

to a new way of working.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:24:56

Sometimes actually they love old you, but like you have transitioned into

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:01

a new version of yourself and new version of you is not a fit for them.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:05

So that can be really painful because it's a process of firing all your clients

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:10

and it feels like this is the wrong thing to be doing that actually, that's the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:14

thing that actually takes the business forward because there's no point in the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:18

business being dependent on a version of you that stopped existing last year.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:23

It has to grow with you as a person.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:25

So it it's an intense process sometimes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:28

Um, and it can be really exciting.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:30

There are highs, there are lows.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:32

But I think ultimately if you know in your bones, that it's the right thing to be

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:36

doing, then it's the right thing to, to make those kinds of changes because the,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:25:41

the impact that it has on revenue is huge.

Erin Austin: 00:25:43

Wow.

Erin Austin: 00:25:44

Yeah.

Erin Austin: 00:25:45

I mean, I personally have been going through this, you know, as well.

Erin Austin: 00:25:50

And, uh, you know, I do have some challenges because I'm a lawyer and so I

Erin Austin: 00:25:55

can't, uh, only deliver it can be done by lawyers depending on what I'm doing, but

Erin Austin: 00:25:59

building a team for the other pieces that don't require, uh, them to be a lawyer

Erin Austin: 00:26:03

and letting go is a huge, huge problem.

Erin Austin: 00:26:07

And, uh, and definitely like, cuz for me, you know, when you feel like you have a

Erin Austin: 00:26:12

certain voice and like even like, um, you know, writing emails and things like, oh,

Erin Austin: 00:26:17

like what this sound like, it's me and that, um, kind of permeates the business.

Erin Austin: 00:26:23

So is there a trick to it or is it just a matter of trusting

Erin Austin: 00:26:26

or how, how do you get comfort?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:30

I think that, um, it's the process of allowing people to do

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:34

things differently to how you would maybe do them, if it achieves the same result.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:39

And I've, I've had experience of both scenarios where you think, oh, I wish

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:44

you hadn't phrased that like that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:45

But then sometimes it's like, That's better than I would've said it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:50

Then

Erin Austin: 00:26:50

right, right,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:51

so, you know, we have to be open to the fact that sometimes like,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:55

like believe it or not, some people will be better than we are at certain things.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:26:58

And I think for our egos, that can be quite a hard thing

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:00

to, to get our heads around.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:02

Um, but I do think that it's just important to be able to

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:05

let people step into that and.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:08

Not micromanage, um, but just allow them to take on the role

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:13

in their own way sometimes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:14

But the way that I like to do it, when I bring on team members is to start

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:18

them off with something really small.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:21

And to really test out whether this is a right fit on something that's

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:24

small, rather than like, kind of give them the whole business and then be

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:28

like, oh my gosh, I gotta take it back.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:30

This is not going well.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:32

Like give them something really small, like test out, let them test you out.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:35

Like see if it works.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:38

And, and sort of take that approach and then, you know, add on the next

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:41

thing and then add on the next thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:43

Um, and it just, it means that they can do a lot less damage if they're not the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:47

right fit, but it just means that also you can begin the process of trusting them,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:51

um, because it's, it's so fulfilling when.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:54

You give someone a bit of responsibility and they just knock it outta the park

Jessica Fearnley: 00:27:58

and you know, it can be quite risky actually to your business to give

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:03

someone access to the whole thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:05

And then like it can cause, and I've had clients who've been in this situation.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:10

Of like, it can just take upwards of a year to find all the things that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:14

went wrong and fix them as well.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:17

So it needs to be that balance.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:18

Like there needs to be proper supervision and like, we have

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:21

to step up in this situation.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:22

You have to be the CEO.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:23

It's not enough to just put someone in, give them a ton of expectation,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:26

communicate very little, and then be like, well, they haven't really done a good job.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:30

You have to change into a different version of yourself in order to make

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:34

that something that is gonna work.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:28:37

Does that make sense?

Erin Austin: 00:28:37

Yeah, absolutely.

Erin Austin: 00:28:39

in this world of remote work, which I imagine probably

Erin Austin: 00:28:42

everyone is doing these days.

Erin Austin: 00:28:44

I mean, you know, certainly post pandemic.

Erin Austin: 00:28:47

What changes have you seen about how people are building their teams

Erin Austin: 00:28:51

and, and structuring their business?

Erin Austin: 00:28:54

and like, how do you think that will affect the way people do it in the future?

Erin Austin: 00:28:57

Like what trends are we seeing regarding how we build teams

Erin Austin: 00:29:01

and, uh, and working remodeling

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:04

Well, one of the things that I love about remote working.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:06

So I'm obviously a remote worker with my clients and everyone on my team is remote.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:11

Um, we were just literally saying in my team meeting today, My one of my

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:15

team members, who's also in the UK.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:17

We we've worked together for several years and we've never met each

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:19

other or come across each other.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:21

Um, so you know, um, but I think one of the things about remote working

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:26

is that it gives the opportunity for you to find someone who is the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:30

absolute right fit for your business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:32

So even if they're not like.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:35

Local to you, you get the, the person who's the absolute expert

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:38

because you you've got a much bigger pool to recruit from.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:41

So I find that like a real kind of benefit, I guess, on the flip

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:45

side, you do have to have the property provision in place.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:48

Um, so you know, things like if you set a meeting and they don't show

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:52

up, that's, that's kind of a big deal because if they don't show up to that,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:56

then that's your communication points.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:57

So.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:29:59

In order for remote working to work, there has to be a lot of trust and they

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:04

have to show that they're worthy of that trust, you know, by, by keeping

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:08

to the arrangement by the letter.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:10

I think when, when people have used remote working as like, you know, an opportunity

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:14

to just be a bit flaky or commit to something and then not follow through,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:18

I personally find that very frustrating.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:21

If you're gonna be like that, then it just, the whole system falls down.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:25

But I have had clients who are like, I want someone who is remote,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:28

but who's near enough that we can meet up face to face if we want to.

Erin Austin: 00:30:32

I'm not I'm raising my hand.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:34

Yeah.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:34

And some people are really big on face to face I'm, I'm not at all.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:37

I'm kind of the opposite.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:38

I'm like, can we not do face to face?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:40

That just makes me feel a lot better, but like, you have to know yourself

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:43

and what is gonna work for you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:45

You know, I, I have, um, I have clients who are quite extroverted and lockdown

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:50

has been really hard on them because they just like to be around people.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:54

Like my husband is a big extrovert and he has really struggled.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:30:57

Whereas in parts of lockdown, I was like, I feel like I'm living my best life.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:01

Everyone's on zoom now, too.

Erin Austin: 00:31:03

all right.

Erin Austin: 00:31:03

And there's no FOMO, no fear of missing out cuz nothing's happening so

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:06

exactly.

Erin Austin: 00:31:07

I get it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:09

Exactly.

Erin Austin: 00:31:10

So we started talking about business models and revenue models.

Erin Austin: 00:31:14

So.

Erin Austin: 00:31:15

If building teams is one of the primary ways of like popping through that six

Erin Austin: 00:31:21

figure ceiling to the seven figure, does that apply across all types of

Erin Austin: 00:31:25

business models and revenue models?

Erin Austin: 00:31:27

Or is there one that's better than the other?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:30

I think whatever you do, you've always gotta keep it

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:32

really tightly focused on the numbers because you can build a team and you can

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:37

increase the revenue of your business and actually make the same or less profit.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:41

And that's a, that's a really scary thing because ultimately what you're

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:44

doing is you are working a ton harder.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:45

Your business is working harder, but to you materially, it makes no difference.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:50

Like, you know, then if you were just still there, solo consultant

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:54

doing it all by yourself.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:56

So I think that was, that is the thing that I would always say like

Jessica Fearnley: 00:31:59

scale, like with the numbers in the very center of what you're

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:03

doing, because it's really easy.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:05

Like when you add in, and actually I have seen people do this, like they're,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:09

they're using adding team members to.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:12

Increase the number of hours that they have available.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:14

But if they're still working to kind of an hourly rate model, you're just

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:18

kicking the problem down the track.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:19

You're not actually dealing with it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:20

We need to see this leveraging.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:22

We need to be like making more money from less time, rather than making

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:27

more money from the same time.

Erin Austin: 00:32:29

So if you have a flawed revenue model,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:33

yes.

Erin Austin: 00:32:34

adding, teams' gonna fix that.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:36

Exactly.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:37

And I, I often say to people, scaling chaos leads to more chaos.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:41

Um, and so like, and I I've seen lots of women be really tempted to be like, oh

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:47

gosh, selling one to one is really hard.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:50

I feel like it would be easier to sell a group because it's lower ticket.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:53

I'm gonna scale and do a group.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:54

And it's like, you're not scaling.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:56

You are trying to bail out the fact that you're not selling

Jessica Fearnley: 00:32:58

at the level that you need to.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:00

And I think it's so much more important unless there's like a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:03

really strong pull to be like, I just don't think I like one to one.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:07

I think I'd be more fulfilled if I was doing a group programmer, to be honest, we

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:10

can, we can justify all kinds of things.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:12

Can't we , but like, Sometimes, I think we need to lean in

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:16

to the stuff that feels hard.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:18

And if, if you're, if you're wanting to scale, because you're not seeing

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:20

the numbers that you want to in your business, I don't think that scaling is

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:24

the thing that you should be focusing on.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:26

Like if, if it's a lack of sales, then scaling.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:29

Won't really help with that because scaling only really works

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:31

when you've got a big audience.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:33

So I always say to people, the time to be thinking about scaling is really

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:37

when you've got more work than you can cope with when you've got more

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:40

inquiries than you can cope with.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:42

Cuz otherwise you're just gonna end up with like a bunch of empty programs and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:45

that is a really stressful place to be.

Erin Austin: 00:33:48

Yes.

Erin Austin: 00:33:48

Yes.

Erin Austin: 00:33:49

Especially cuz it, I mean that's an investment to create those programs.

Erin Austin: 00:33:52

So if there's not the demand for it, I mean, where's the market

Erin Austin: 00:33:55

demand for this like anything.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:57

exactly it needs, it needs to be demand led.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:33:59

And that can feel like a really hard thing if you're struggling in business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:02

And you're like, I think quite often, you know, we can know that we're awesome at

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:07

what we do, but we just haven't found like that connection with our audience yet.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:11

And I, that really is isn't.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:13

It's not the time to scale that it's the time to lean into, to the sales issue that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:17

we're having and really find ways, but you can even apply leveraging to that and

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:22

kind of get in front of other people's audience and get people to make referrals

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:26

to you do cross promotion, like leveraging doesn't always have to be about time.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:30

There's, there's actually a lot of ways that you can leverage a lot of things.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:33

You know, you can even like talk to people and say, can you, can you introduce me?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:38

To someone and then like, you know, it, it can be a case of leveraging your

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:42

network of contacts because everyone that you know, has got their own network.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:46

And so that's another way that you can apply leveraging.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:48

Um, I, it, it's a really exciting concept because when you really

Jessica Fearnley: 00:34:52

understand it, you start to see so many different ways that you can apply it.

Erin Austin: 00:34:55

Right.

Erin Austin: 00:34:56

Ah, that is so perfect.

Erin Austin: 00:34:58

So as you know, um, hourly to exit is a bit of a meta.

Erin Austin: 00:35:04

Podcast, because we're talking about building a business

Erin Austin: 00:35:08

that can be sold someday.

Erin Austin: 00:35:09

And I am, you know, the female founder of an expertise based business that I

Erin Austin: 00:35:14

am building to hope to sell someday.

Erin Austin: 00:35:16

So my question for you as the female founder of an expertise

Erin Austin: 00:35:19

based business, are you selling your business to hopefully sell some day.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:24

So before I set up my company, I was head of

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:27

operations in a consultancy firm that we built up for four years to

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:31

seven figures, and then it was sold.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:34

And one of the things that I picked up along the way is that actually,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:37

if you are gonna build a business, whether you're gonna sell it at the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:40

end, like preparing it as if it was gonna be sold is just a really good

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:44

way to build a strong business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:46

So my, my goal is not really to sell my business because it's really based around

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:53

me and the fact that I wanted something to do and a way to contribute to the world.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:35:58

And really, you know, I've been, I've been going for eight years now and I haven't

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:01

run out of ideas even a little bit.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:03

I haven't got bored of it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:04

Um, so I think I'm in this business for the long haul for sure.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:07

But like, I, I really understand those.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:10

Kind of criteria of what makes a strong business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:13

And so absolutely I'm doing everything that I can to embed those in my

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:17

business, regardless of whether I get to a point where I decide to sell.

Erin Austin: 00:36:20

Yeah.

Erin Austin: 00:36:21

Well, I like to look at it as, I mean, there someday there'll be something else

Erin Austin: 00:36:25

that might just catch it, be something else, you know, who knows five years

Erin Austin: 00:36:28

from now, what will be happening in the world that maybe is more urgent.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:32

Yeah, exactly.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:33

And every now and then I, I get like a bit of an inspired idea and I'm like, oh,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:37

I think that might be the thing that I do in five years time or 10 years time.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:41

Um, but you know, like I'm a big fan of making your business fit the size that

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:46

you have, like in your schedule and sort of the amount of space available

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:51

and making your business really work.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:52

Even if it's with a teeny tiny amount of time, finding ways to actually

Jessica Fearnley: 00:36:56

get it, to achieve the revenue that you want to on that, on that basis.

Erin Austin: 00:37:00

I, I can confirm listeners that Jessica is super good at boundaries.

Erin Austin: 00:37:05

Like she's like the master of boundaries.

Erin Austin: 00:37:07

I'm like, when I grow up, I wanna have boundaries like Jessica.

Erin Austin: 00:37:11

So

Erin Austin: 00:37:11

is, I'm the worst.

Erin Austin: 00:37:15

That is one of my challenges for sure.

Erin Austin: 00:37:18

So I have a couple of final questions for you.

Erin Austin: 00:37:22

One as we share that, you know, having more wealth in the hands

Erin Austin: 00:37:25

of women is good for society.

Erin Austin: 00:37:28

And so I am wondering if there is an organization or person who is, uh,

Erin Austin: 00:37:34

furthering that mission to help create a more equitable society for everyone

Erin Austin: 00:37:38

that you like to share with the audience.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:40

Oh, sure.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:41

So there is a charity that is based in Sheffield in the UK, um,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:45

which is the city that I live in.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:46

It's not my hometown, it's my adopted home.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:49

Um, but it's called baby basics and I, I love it because, what they do

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:54

is they, they collect in kind of secondhand stuff, but they also.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:37:57

Buy some equipment new, but they provide things like Moses baskets, baby clothes,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:03

nappies, for all kind of stages of child development for underprivileged family.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:09

And, um, they've, they've been very involved in sort of, we, we had a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:13

lot of Afghan immigrants arriving in the UK because of like the, the

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:17

terrible situation in Afghanistan.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:19

Um, they were very involved in preparing packs for people,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:23

with things like car seats.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:25

Um, clothes, winter clothes, coats, you know, the very practical thing that if

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:28

you're coming from a desert country and moving to the UK, you absolutely need.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:32

Um, but they've also been doing a similar, um, campaign for people

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:36

arriving, um, in the UK, from the Ukraine.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:39

So, they're a charity that I love to support.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:41

I've I've given them a ton of like my.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:43

Baby stuff, which was still in like really lovely condition.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:46

And you just think, I love that this is going somewhere where it can be used,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:50

cuz it's got so much more life in it.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:52

But also, they take, financial donations and they also often have

Jessica Fearnley: 00:38:56

an Amazon wishlist or two where you can literally just go and buy, um,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:00

like 10 high chairs or something like that, whatever is needed.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:03

So yeah, baby basics are, are my charity of choice.

Erin Austin: 00:39:06

Fantastic.

Erin Austin: 00:39:07

We will have that in the show notes.

Erin Austin: 00:39:09

Do you have an offer that you'd like to share with the audience?

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:12

Um, yeah, so we've touched on haven't we kind of what

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:14

it takes to grow a business for sale.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:17

As I shared, I have been involved in this it's like selling a house times a

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:22

thousand , as part of that, like, All of the things that I learned, I kind of wrote

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:28

into this framework, which I call the six elements for seven figure business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:31

I have that available as a PDF, which is free to download.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:35

And I'm sure we can put the, the link to that in the show notes, but it, it covers

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:40

all the things that you need to know to build a strong business as a consultant.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:46

Um, and if you are thinking about selling one day, then these are things

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:49

which will be really, really helpful.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:51

They are literally the things that we were taught, um, when we were going through

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:54

this process of turning a six figure business into a seven figure business.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:58

They are things that like.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:39:59

Don't get talked about things like risk.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:02

So like as a quick example, we realized, um, during this process that 90% of

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:06

our work, possibly even 95% of our work was all with the same one client.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:12

And from a risk point of view, it's just like, ah,

Erin Austin: 00:40:16

yes.

Erin Austin: 00:40:16

Yes.

Erin Austin: 00:40:16

That will client.

Erin Austin: 00:40:17

Yes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:18

It's these things that, you know, it's, it's not like marketing,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:21

um, because often in a consulting business, like you actually don't need

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:25

to do a lot of marketing because a lot of it comes through relationships, um,

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:28

and referrals and that kind of thing.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:30

So it's, it's not necessarily the things that you see talked about when it comes to

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:34

online business, but it's, it's the stuff that, as a consultant, you absolutely need

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:38

to know about in order to build a really thriving seven figure consulting business.

Erin Austin: 00:40:43

That's fantastic.

Erin Austin: 00:40:44

Thank you.

Erin Austin: 00:40:44

That will definitely be in the show notes and accompanying.

Erin Austin: 00:40:47

It will be where people can find you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:51

Yeah, thank you.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:52

So I, I have my website, jessicafearnley.com.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:55

There's a secret a in Fearnley, but I'm sure we can cover that in the show notes.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:40:59

Um, but come and find me on LinkedIn.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:01

Um, I love LinkedIn as we've talked about, I use it prolifically.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:04

So do do come and connect with me on LinkedIn.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:07

Send me a, a message in the DMS and just say that you've

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:10

heard me on Erin's podcast.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:11

I would love to talk to.

Erin Austin: 00:41:13

That is so fantastic.

Erin Austin: 00:41:15

Thank you so much for joining me, Jessica.

Erin Austin: 00:41:16

This has been just a fountain of wisdom and information.

Erin Austin: 00:41:21

Thank you again.

Erin Austin: 00:41:22

And, uh, I look forward to the next time.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:26

Thank you for having me.

Jessica Fearnley: 00:41:27

It's been just awesome.