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Episode 19

E19: Beating The Broken Cookie Effect with Patty Block

How many of us who provide our services as a business actually think in terms of profit? The timing couldn't be better for my conversation with Patty Block. An expert herself, Patty works with female expertise-based service providers on being intentional in their business models, transitioning from transactional to transformative pricing structures, and better understanding how to integrate profit into their revenue model. In this podcast you’ll learn:

  • The biggest difference between being a business owner and an employee
  • Surprise! You already have a business model, but does it really fit your unique business value and needs?
  • The benefits of value-driven pricing and the burdens of hourly billing
  • Recent recession trends, and how to fight the impulse to “ride it out.”
  • As a bonus, you’ll hear the parable of the broken cookie – take it to heart!

I so appreciated Patty’s insights, and she really reminded us that knowing your value is not bragging, it’s the key to a profitable business on your own terms. And when you’re ready to talk about your own pricing structure, let’s talk about valuing your IP.

Resources mentioned:

Patty’s Revenue Roadblocks Quiz will help you discover what's in your way and how to knock down those roadblocks! https://www.theblockgroup.net/my-revenue-roadblocks

Connect with Patty:

https://www.facebook.com/patty.block/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pattyblock/

https://www.theblockgroup.net/

We would love it if you would consider supporting Patty’s charity of choice: https://girlsinc.org/

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Transcript
Erin Austin:

Well, welcome everyone to the Hourly to Exit podcast.

Erin Austin:

I am so happy to have Patty block with me here today.

Erin Austin:

Thank you for joining me Patty.

Patty Block:

Oh my pleasure.

Patty Block:

I'm glad to be.

Erin Austin:

Patty is a huge pro.

Erin Austin:

I'm gonna let her introduce herself to you, but I will say, I've hear

Erin Austin:

her name from many different corners of the ecoverse, I don't even know

Erin Austin:

what we call this thing that we are involved in, and many of them I'm

Erin Austin:

pretty sure don't know about each other.

Erin Austin:

So, um, her name comes up quite a bit in this space, so I was

Erin Austin:

very excited to have her on.

Erin Austin:

There are many things that she can talk to us about, but we are going to focus

Erin Austin:

on revenue models and pricing today.

Erin Austin:

But before we dive in, Patty, would you introduce yourself to the audience?

Patty Block:

Sure.

Patty Block:

I'm Patty Block.

Patty Block:

When I was growing up, my mom used to make these fabulous cookies.

Patty Block:

The whole house smelled good, was warm, the cookies were gooey.

Patty Block:

And all my life, I watched my mom eat the broken cookies, but it wasn't until I was

Patty Block:

a teenager that I even thought to ask her.

Patty Block:

Why do you only eat the broken cookies?

Patty Block:

Do they taste better?

Patty Block:

And she laughed and said, No, I eat the broken cookies so

Patty Block:

you can have the whole ones.

Patty Block:

And not too long ago, I saw this really shocking statistic, 62% of women rely on

Patty Block:

their business for their primary income.

Patty Block:

And 88% of women own businesses make less than a hundred thousand dollars a year.

Patty Block:

And all of a sudden, this image of my mom eating the broken cookies, Popped

Patty Block:

in my head because I started connecting the dots and realizing in all the years

Patty Block:

that I've worked with women business owners, we are bringing that spirit of

Patty Block:

self-sacrifice into our businesses and creating a self-imposed glass ceiling.

Patty Block:

And my mission became helping women business owners understand that dynamic.

Patty Block:

And work to change it because you really can run your business your.

Erin Austin:

That's fantastic.

Erin Austin:

I love that.

Erin Austin:

And you know, it is true, we both work with women and I can't say

Erin Austin:

I have a nice little anecdote like that, that's fantastic.

Erin Austin:

But we do find that there are differences.

Erin Austin:

I mean, yes, business is business, but we do bring ourselves to it, right?

Erin Austin:

And, and that there are some differences about the way, um, women's, you know,

Erin Austin:

either emotional intelligence or.

Erin Austin:

Sense of self-sacrifice or mindset issues that sometimes we approach

Erin Austin:

some of these issues differently.

Erin Austin:

And so the conversations are different, some of the vocabulary is different.

Erin Austin:

so, that's great.

Erin Austin:

So this is, this is an audience of mostly women, business owners.

Erin Austin:

So I did wanna, uh, ask, you know, who your typical client is and did

Erin Austin:

you pick your niche of women before or after your broken cookie realization?

Patty Block:

Both of those are great questions.

Patty Block:

So the women that I work with typically are experts in their fields.

Patty Block:

So they're often accountants, attorneys, they're, uh, engineers

Patty Block:

and marketing and PR professionals, so they're often technical experts.

Patty Block:

I also have kind of a specialty in the elder care industry and have worked

Patty Block:

with multiple companies and of course that industry is really booming.

Patty Block:

Whether that's unfortunate or fortunate is hard to say, but there are a lot

Patty Block:

of needs for the elder population.

Patty Block:

So I work with technical experts and the common theme running through

Patty Block:

that is I'm also a technical expert.

Patty Block:

I also am really good with numbers and I'm a good consultant and I

Patty Block:

provide a great service that gets great results just like my clients do.

Patty Block:

But a lot of us were not trained on how to run a business.

Patty Block:

And so we believe that somebody else has the answer.

Patty Block:

And we start listening to gurus, to experts, to people that give us

Patty Block:

kind of a cookie cutter approach.

Patty Block:

And I have found that doesn't work and it especially doesn't work

Patty Block:

for women because to your earlier point, we think differently.

Patty Block:

We feel differently.

Patty Block:

We behave differently than most men.

Patty Block:

And that again, is not a good or a bad thing.

Patty Block:

It's a different thing.

Patty Block:

And that is why I work exclusively with women business owners.

Patty Block:

So the funny thing is to your second question, I selected to

Patty Block:

work with women business owners when I started my company in 2006,

Patty Block:

and at that time it felt very risky.

Patty Block:

And I had people who questioned me about that, some of my mentors who said, Are you

Patty Block:

sure you wanna cut out half the market?

Patty Block:

And I said, Well, let's check the stats.

Patty Block:

Because the statistics show it's not half the market and that women business owners

Patty Block:

are becoming much, much more common.

Patty Block:

There are more women willing to take that leap of faith, and that's where

Patty Block:

I know I have the biggest impact.

Patty Block:

So when I originally did that almost 16 years ago, it was a

Patty Block:

differentiator for my company.

Patty Block:

Now, it no longer is.

Patty Block:

And so that's been an interesting evolution.

Patty Block:

I have to say, I'm delighted that there are so many more providers

Patty Block:

focusing on women business owners,

Patty Block:

there are so many more women business owners, and the women

Patty Block:

are becoming more successful.

Patty Block:

So that really is very rolled up into my message and my mission

Patty Block:

because it's about empowering.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

And you know, knowing who you're talking to, you know, makes a big difference

Erin Austin:

in, in your outreach and how you're developing programs and things like that.

Erin Austin:

But it's funny that someone would mention, you know, you're

Erin Austin:

cutting off half of the market.

Erin Austin:

Well, like how many.

Erin Austin:

People can you serve?

Erin Austin:

Right?

Erin Austin:

I mean, so many people.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

I mean, one of your, experti ses is, is talking about segmentation

Erin Austin:

and specialization in niches.

Erin Austin:

And as we know, nicheing is not a bad thing, is a good thing.

Erin Austin:

But I would imagine that 16 years ago that it was absolutely

Erin Austin:

foreign, you know, to, to do that.

Erin Austin:

So that was very brave of you.

Erin Austin:

And yes, I'm also glad that there are a lot.

Erin Austin:

Women thinking very strategically about their businesses now,

Erin Austin:

and they are getting help.

Erin Austin:

They understand the opportunities and they're willing to invest

Erin Austin:

in themselves and in their businesses to, to help grow it.

Erin Austin:

So this is kind of a nerdy question cause it's one that I myself have,

Erin Austin:

have, uh, struggled with, which is using the term business owner

Erin Austin:

versus entrepreneur versus founder.

Erin Austin:

Do you use them interchangeably?

Erin Austin:

Did did it mean something to you?

Erin Austin:

Do you use business owner versus the other terms?

Patty Block:

You know, it's an interesting question because different

Patty Block:

people will give you different answers.

Patty Block:

And, when we think of an entrepreneur, so I think of it as a verb.

Patty Block:

We are entrepreneurial, and I don't worry too much about the labels.

Patty Block:

So for example, I never call myself a business coach because to me that's a

Patty Block:

relatively meaningless term because.

Patty Block:

Anyone can call themselves a coach, and there are 500 million coaches out there.

Patty Block:

So I never use that term, but my clients refer to me as a business coach, so I kind

Patty Block:

of go with the flow because I'm not too worried about labels and I think of we

Patty Block:

all have that entrepreneurial spirit or we wouldn't be doing what we're doing and.

Patty Block:

That is really a different mindset.

Patty Block:

So a lot of my clients come out of a corporate career and they've been

Patty Block:

with a big accounting firm, a big law firm, or A lot of my engineering

Patty Block:

clients are biomedical engineers, are system engineers, industrial, and so

Patty Block:

they've also come out of a big company.

Patty Block:

And as I mentioned earlier, often we don't really know how to run a company, but we

Patty Block:

are really great at providing our service.

Patty Block:

So all of that I think of myself as a business owner.

Patty Block:

And I have an entrepreneurial spirit, and I've learned to think like an

Patty Block:

entrepreneur, which again is very different than thinking like an employee.

Patty Block:

And the biggest difference for me is as an entrepreneur, as a business

Patty Block:

owner, I'm spending my own money.

Patty Block:

As an employee, I'm spending somebody else's money, and that's a huge

Patty Block:

distinction in my mind because we all think about the money coming

Patty Block:

in, the revenue and, and how we go out and find our ideal clients.

Patty Block:

But I think of the expense side of how am I spending money?

Patty Block:

How am I making those decisions?

Patty Block:

Because the top line revenue is only a fraction of the story.

Patty Block:

It's really the bottom line revenue that we need to be paying more attention.

Erin Austin:

Well, that is an excellent segue to what we're gonna

Erin Austin:

focus on today, which is revenue, Revenue models, and pricing.

Erin Austin:

So I would love to, by the way, I, I like to joke that this is like, My

Erin Austin:

podcast is free coaching cuz I ask all the questions that I have about

Erin Austin:

these things cuz I am my avatar.

Erin Austin:

And so, uh, so I love to start with some definitions, revenue model,

Erin Austin:

pricing, their relationship to each other, why they're important.

Patty Block:

You bet.

Patty Block:

These are not things we typically think about as women business owners.

Patty Block:

We don't typically develop our business model and our revenue

Patty Block:

model and then start our business.

Patty Block:

We do it the other way around.

Patty Block:

We start our business, we provide the service, and then we, we hear

Patty Block:

in the marketplace these terms and this jargon and we think, Oh,

Patty Block:

well I don't have one of those.

Patty Block:

You do.

Patty Block:

You have a business model, and by business model, I mean the way you deliver

Patty Block:

your service, the way you charge your clients, how you collect those funds,

Patty Block:

all of that is part of your business model, including how you get your

Patty Block:

message out and your marketing, your business development, and your sales.

Patty Block:

And I'm gonna make a quick distinction from those three terms because I think

Patty Block:

there's a lot of misunderstanding.

Patty Block:

Marketing is about visibility, so that's how you get your message out.

Patty Block:

In some circumstances you could generate leads that way, but that's for my company.

Patty Block:

It's not how I generate leads.

Patty Block:

Most of my leads come from referrals, introductions, and speaking engagements,

Patty Block:

and I have found that to be true of most of my clients as well.

Patty Block:

So the challenge is that we often pour a ton of money into marketing and spend

Patty Block:

a huge amount of time and nobody's really listening or paying attention.

Patty Block:

So that's, the marketing piece is about visibility.

Patty Block:

The business development piece is where women really excel, and that

Patty Block:

is about building relationships and that leads to sales, which a lot

Patty Block:

of women don't wanna talk about.

Patty Block:

And what I realized, When I started my company, I did what everybody does.

Patty Block:

I started taking all these programs.

Patty Block:

I started trying to figure out how am I gonna price, How am I gonna sell?

Patty Block:

How do I want to present myself?

Patty Block:

To my audience, who is my audience, right?

Patty Block:

I started in the same place and I took tons of programs

Patty Block:

and it was very frustrating.

Patty Block:

But what I've now done, I've recognized patterns.

Patty Block:

I've developed my own intellectual property.

Patty Block:

I have put the pieces together so that I can shortcut it for my clients.

Patty Block:

They don't have to go through all that frustration.

Patty Block:

So going back to the idea of business model versus revenue model.

Patty Block:

So you have a business model just like you have a reputation.

Patty Block:

Now, you might not like your reputation, you might not like your business model,

Patty Block:

but you have the power to change it.

Patty Block:

And so a lot of what you and I are talking about is kind of coming awake.

Patty Block:

This awareness of this business model has served me for three

Patty Block:

years and it kind of isn't working.

Patty Block:

, but if you don't know how to change it or what would work better for

Patty Block:

you, that's a huge frustration.

Patty Block:

And in fact, this happened to millions of business owners when the Covid 19

Patty Block:

pandemic hit, and there were many business owners who realized that their business

Patty Block:

model of meeting in person didn't work.

Patty Block:

And they were so limited.

Patty Block:

And so a lot of companies certainly pivoted to virtual meetings, but

Patty Block:

they had to pivot in other ways too, and they may have lost clients.

Patty Block:

So that's the business model idea.

Patty Block:

The revenue model is not only the pricing of what you charge for your

Patty Block:

services and how you charge and how you communicate that, but it is also.

Patty Block:

Different streams of revenue.

Patty Block:

So for example, if you offer one-on-one consulting, that's one revenue stream.

Patty Block:

If you then develop a membership program that's a second revenue stream, and

Patty Block:

most companies have multiple streams, and it's a really good strategy

Patty Block:

because then you don't literally have all your eggs in one basket.

Patty Block:

So, What I would say is depending on your point in your business life cycle,

Patty Block:

you have a business model and a revenue model, but you might not have examined it

Patty Block:

and determined what works best for you.

Patty Block:

And that goes back to what I said earlier about what I really do, if you

Patty Block:

boil it down, is I help women business owners run their business their way,

Patty Block:

and figure out what that means.

Patty Block:

Because it needs to align with your values, what and who is

Patty Block:

important to you and how you wanna be perceived in the marketplace.

Patty Block:

And if you don't determine those things, they happen by accident and

Patty Block:

you end up with a reputation that might not be how you wanna be perceived.

Erin Austin:

Yeah, one of the things about being an expert coming out of

Erin Austin:

corporate, coming out of a big firm and many of us, myself included, um,

Erin Austin:

we come out and we basically sell our expertise, we sell our time, cuz

Erin Austin:

it is the easiest business model.

Erin Austin:

And, it makes sense to us, right?

Erin Austin:

It's the, the path of least resistance.

Erin Austin:

And then there will come the time when sooner, sometimes sooner, sometimes later,

Erin Austin:

where we kind of, you know, start to think about, you know, is there a more effective

Erin Austin:

way for me to, you know, generate revenue and to share my expertise?

Erin Austin:

But it's still a little bit controversial to leave behind that hourly

Erin Austin:

model, especially among the professional services where it's pretty ingrained.

Erin Austin:

How do they recognize, Okay, whatever I'm doing isn't working.

Erin Austin:

I don't know what it is, that's why I need you.

Erin Austin:

But how do they know that there's something missing,

Erin Austin:

wrong, doesn't feel good,

Erin Austin:

that they need you?

Erin Austin:

And what is the pushback that you get when you try to help them see things

Erin Austin:

in another way, if any pushback.

Erin Austin:

But what, what are the types of resistance that you see?

Patty Block:

I think there's always resistance to change,

Patty Block:

even when we want to change.

Patty Block:

It's scary, and that is the huge benefit of a trusting relationship.

Patty Block:

So the first thing that I do with my clients is build trust.

Patty Block:

I can't expect them to listen to me to follow my advice if we don't

Patty Block:

trust each other, and if I haven't created a safe space for them.

Patty Block:

So that is definitely the first step in my process.

Patty Block:

When we think about the hourly billing model, what I hear, I've

Patty Block:

done a lot of market research.

Patty Block:

I've asked these exact questions of my exact audience because I

Patty Block:

know what I believe, but I wanted to hear it from people who are

Patty Block:

struggling with the same things.

Patty Block:

And here's what I heard.

Patty Block:

Well, somehow I feel safer when I bill hourly because then I'm being

Patty Block:

compensated for all my time, right?

Patty Block:

I can't predict what this project is gonna look like, so

Patty Block:

I can't possibly do a flat rate.

Patty Block:

I can't possibly do a retainer.

Patty Block:

I can't possibly use something other than hourly billing because

Patty Block:

then I'm gonna be shortchanged.

Patty Block:

And the first step in that is shifting your mindset.

Patty Block:

So it's that safe space, trust me, I've lost count of how many women business

Patty Block:

owners I've worked with, and I've shown people how to do this differently.

Patty Block:

And here are the pitfalls with the hourly billing model, and here's the

Patty Block:

biggest one in my opinion, that is when you're providing your service, You

Patty Block:

are really providing a transformation.

Patty Block:

Your clients don't come to you and say, I just need this one thing, or

Patty Block:

Give me this one piece of advice.

Patty Block:

Everyone that I work with, and I know for you, Erin, it's

Patty Block:

about building relationships.

Patty Block:

And you want clients who stick with you and understand the value that you

Patty Block:

bring, but the instant you charge hourly, you have just created a transaction.

Patty Block:

So you're providing a transformational service with a transactional pricing.

Patty Block:

And that not only causes a disconnect with your buyer, but it

Patty Block:

causes a disconnect in yourself.

Patty Block:

And there's a conflict.

Patty Block:

There's this internal conflict because you know the value of what you're providing,

Patty Block:

and yet you're not pricing that way.

Patty Block:

And so the first sign that most people recognize is feeling unfulfilled.

Patty Block:

They feel that internal conflict and they feel as though I have

Patty Block:

no idea if I'm profitable.

Patty Block:

I'm making money, I'm bringing money in, I like my clients, some of them,

Patty Block:

some of them I wish I could fire.

Patty Block:

You know, all of those thoughts are going through our minds, and

Patty Block:

we really don't have answers to the question of, am I doing this right?

Patty Block:

What am I doing wrong?

Patty Block:

What is the right answer?

Patty Block:

And my belief is there is no right answer.

Patty Block:

There's only a right answer for you, your right answer, and

Patty Block:

that's what I help you discover.

Patty Block:

So You know, it's funny because the corporate model never worked for women.

Patty Block:

It doesn't work today,

Patty Block:

it never did.

Patty Block:

It was created by men.

Patty Block:

For men,

Erin Austin:

What do you mean by the corporate model?

Erin Austin:

What

Patty Block:

the corporate model is nine to five.

Patty Block:

You go into an office, there are lots and lots of employees, and

Patty Block:

you're a cog in the wheel, right?

Patty Block:

And that's true of every corporation out there that has,

Patty Block:

let's say, more than 500 people.

Patty Block:

And there's a corporate model that was developed over the twenties, the

Patty Block:

thirties, the forties, and really kind of came into its own in the

Patty Block:

1950s, and again, was created by men for men, never worked for women.

Patty Block:

It really doesn't work for women today.

Patty Block:

That's why we see such an exodus out of corporate because women realize, not just

Patty Block:

women, everyone realizes that they can generate revenue and build their business

Patty Block:

instead of doing it for someone else.

Erin Austin:

Yes.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

You know, that reminds me of, this was a couple years ago and there

Erin Austin:

was a, an organization, I won't new names, but they were formed, uh, went

Erin Austin:

to help more women become partners.

Erin Austin:

In big firms and, uh, and also to create their own firms.

Erin Austin:

And, but they were using the same model that law firms currently use.

Erin Austin:

Like, and I was like, Would we wanna buy into that?

Erin Austin:

We want something different.

Erin Austin:

We want something that works for women.

Erin Austin:

We don't wanna like figure out how we can work that system better.

Erin Austin:

We want a new system that makes more sense.

Erin Austin:

And uh, and what my comments weren't well received, but I felt pretty strongly

Erin Austin:

about, That's not like, no, that, that's, I don't think that's what we need.

Erin Austin:

And there are a lot of, new ways to, to provide legal services that don't

Erin Austin:

require that kind of structure that you.

Erin Austin:

Partner and then you know, your underlings.

Erin Austin:

And that has more flexibility and obviously Covid has made

Erin Austin:

some changes there as well.

Erin Austin:

But, yeah,

Erin Austin:

we don't wanna figure out how to fit into the old system better if we wanna create

Erin Austin:

new systems that make more sense for us.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Patty Block:

Exactly, and that's true of the kids now that are in

Patty Block:

their twenties, thirties and forties.

Patty Block:

That is exactly the angst and the frustration that they're dealing with.

Patty Block:

And why they're leaving those bigger companies in droves

Patty Block:

and starting their own things.

Patty Block:

Now, you and I both know that being a business owner is not easy, and if

Patty Block:

it was, everybody would be doing it.

Patty Block:

But it is easier today with advanced technology than it's ever been.

Patty Block:

So that's why I think It is so empowering for women in particular because

Patty Block:

you can craft your life the way you want it, whatever that means to you.

Patty Block:

And that's what I mean about, there's no right answer.

Patty Block:

There's no right way to run a business.

Patty Block:

There's only your way.

Patty Block:

And that's what I teach.

Erin Austin:

So do you have a signature way that you work with your clients,

Erin Austin:

or is it everyone is unique and you have whatever they need, wherever

Erin Austin:

they come to you with, wherever they are in the journey, you, you

Erin Austin:

craft something special for them?

Erin Austin:

Or do you have a signature solution or a, a framework that you work with?

Patty Block:

I do.

Patty Block:

So there are several different ways to work with me.

Patty Block:

One is one on one consulting.

Patty Block:

I also have a program called the Revenue Round Table, and that is

Patty Block:

a group of women business owners who are experts in their fields.

Patty Block:

And one of the things I love about Revenue Round Table is that it is, while it's

Patty Block:

very supportive and we all know each other well, we also challenge each other.

Patty Block:

And sometimes that is, it's better, it's more instructive, and we

Patty Block:

learn more from those challenges than we do from the support.

Patty Block:

So the Revenue Round Table is really a wonderful program.

Patty Block:

The other opportunity is a framework I call Value Driven Pricing.

Patty Block:

It is an online program that has a coaching component to it, and that

Patty Block:

fits with a second program called Painless Selling to Ideal Buyers.

Patty Block:

So those are two programs that I've developed for exactly

Patty Block:

the reason I mentioned before.

Patty Block:

My observation that all the sales programs out there were designed by men.

Patty Block:

For men.

Patty Block:

I took a lot of them.

Patty Block:

They didn't work for me, and I developed my own.

Patty Block:

So value driven pricing is to help you analyze what you're currently doing with

Patty Block:

your pricing, shift your mindset, perhaps from hourly billing to a different model.

Patty Block:

A lot of times we don't even realize what our choices.

Patty Block:

So helping people realize all the different ways that you can price

Patty Block:

your services and then helping you build your pricing model.

Patty Block:

So it's not all theoretical and conceptual, it is very much mechanical.

Patty Block:

Once we can shift your mindset, have you thinking in a different way,

Patty Block:

understanding your choices, then I help you actually build the pricing model.

Patty Block:

And in painless selling, I help you actually figure

Patty Block:

out who is your ideal buyer?

Patty Block:

Where is your ideal buyer?

Patty Block:

How do you talk to your ideal buyer?

Patty Block:

That is a huge stumbling block for technical experts.

Patty Block:

And how do you talk to them?

Patty Block:

How do you get the value across to them, and how do you guide

Patty Block:

them so they're ready to buy?

Patty Block:

And those pieces put together.

Patty Block:

Help you figure out how you can customize to bring in the clients

Patty Block:

you want to work with price in a way that is very profitable, and which

Patty Block:

then ultimately gives you even more choices because you're not on a feast

Patty Block:

in famine, kind of roller coaster.

Erin Austin:

Right.

Erin Austin:

I will say that value pricing or value driven pricing is strikes

Erin Austin:

fear in the hearts of many people.

Erin Austin:

What?

Erin Austin:

What is the hardest part of value driven pricing?

Patty Block:

That women feel like they're bragging and they're very hesitant.

Patty Block:

We are very hesitant to talk about ourselves.

Patty Block:

I know I am.

Patty Block:

It has taken me years and years and years to get comfortable talking

Patty Block:

about the value that I really bring.

Patty Block:

So I'll give you an example.

Patty Block:

Think about your network.

Patty Block:

You've probably spent your entire career building your network of colleagues,

Patty Block:

of clients, of former clients, of resources, but we don't think of that as.

Patty Block:

So when, let's say you are an attorney and you, someone is coming

Patty Block:

to you and they, they need your help with a particular issue.

Patty Block:

When you are talking to them, you know in your own mind that as they need additional

Patty Block:

resources, you're gonna make introductions or you're gonna suggest to them that

Patty Block:

they reach out to this type of special.

Patty Block:

That has incredible value because you trust the people that you're

Patty Block:

recommending and you've vetted them and you've gotten to know them.

Patty Block:

You've built that relationship, and yet we kind of disregard that in our pricing.

Patty Block:

So I really help my clients see pricing as a well rounded issue.

Patty Block:

It's not any one.

Patty Block:

It's about how you build value in the mind of your buyer

Erin Austin:

Hmm.

Erin Austin:

Like being able to communicate that value effectively,

Patty Block:

be able to communicate that value.

Patty Block:

And what I always say is we have a saying here in Texas, it's not bragging

Patty Block:

if it's true, and it is so true.

Patty Block:

Sometimes women feel as though they have to continually prove the.

Patty Block:

And that's when they can price higher or differently.

Patty Block:

And you have proved yourself.

Patty Block:

You've proved yourself in your corporate career, in your business,

Patty Block:

in the relationships you've built.

Patty Block:

Stop worrying about proving yourself and start worrying about

Patty Block:

communicating your value, because then your pricing makes sense.

Patty Block:

And remember that as humans, we tend to equate.

Patty Block:

High value and high price.

Patty Block:

And low value and low price.

Patty Block:

So keep in mind, if you're keeping your pricing artificially low,

Patty Block:

people will perceive you differently.

Erin Austin:

Right.

Erin Austin:

Absolutely.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

I wrote, uh, a newsletter piece about, under promising and over delivering

Erin Austin:

and how that is a sign that there's something wrong with your pricing or

Erin Austin:

something wrong with your business model.

Erin Austin:

Because if your client says, I want X outcome, and that outcome is worth

Erin Austin:

Y to them, and you deliver that to them, then there's no under promising.

Erin Austin:

You know, and no over delivery require.

Erin Austin:

They got exactly what they wanted , and that is valuable to

Erin Austin:

them, and that you have priced it in a way that reflects that value.

Erin Austin:

So that's the insecurity that comes from, uh, either, you know, hourly billing.

Erin Austin:

I, I think you see, we see a lot of hourly billing because like, oh, you know, I

Erin Austin:

can't charge for that hour that I spent, you know, looking through whatever.

Erin Austin:

And when you're artificially under pricing because you want to.

Erin Austin:

Over deliver, so yeah.

Erin Austin:

Yeah,

Patty Block:

Right.

Patty Block:

I, I refer to that as the double whammy for women.

Patty Block:

So we underpriced and then we over deliver.

Patty Block:

So your profit just went poof.

Erin Austin:

Mm-hmm.

Patty Block:

Right, And again, I'm gonna go back to some of that

Patty Block:

jargon of the business model, the revenue model and profit.

Patty Block:

And as women experts, we're delivering our service.

Patty Block:

We feel so good when we get those great results.

Patty Block:

Our clients value that tremendously.

Patty Block:

And yet our businesses are often not profitable.

Patty Block:

And you can be profitable one month and not the.

Patty Block:

So I think there's a real misunderstanding about what it means to be profitable

Patty Block:

and consistently profitable.

Erin Austin:

Yeah, I think especially in service based businesses, right?

Erin Austin:

When you have product, you think about, you know, inventory, cost

Erin Austin:

of good soul and blah, blah, blah.

Erin Austin:

And so you have this way of figuring out your profit where we.

Erin Austin:

Especially for thinking in terms of hourly, rates.

Erin Austin:

Like, okay, well, you know, I'm making this much an hour.

Erin Austin:

That's pretty good.

Erin Austin:

And we're not really thinking about like, what is my profit?

Erin Austin:

I mean, I rarely hear certainly solopreneurs, I'll use the term, who

Erin Austin:

are service based, talking about profits.

Erin Austin:

I, I feel like I rarely hear that.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Patty Block:

No, and same for me.

Patty Block:

Uh, that's not what I hear women business owners talking about.

Patty Block:

They worry about their pricing.

Patty Block:

They stress about bringing in more and more clients, which I call the

Patty Block:

myth of more because more and more clients, or more and more projects

Patty Block:

creates a whole new set of problems.

Patty Block:

So it's finding that balance of what works for you as the business owner,

Patty Block:

what is bringing in consistent revenue at, at a really appropriate level so

Patty Block:

that you're consistently profitable.

Patty Block:

And, um, probably more of that than we'd like to admit, goes back to communi.

Patty Block:

How we talk about ourselves, how we talk to our buyers, to our clients, how

Patty Block:

we manage those client relationships.

Patty Block:

All of those pieces are often tricky for technical experts.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

We wanna make sure, like before we even think about scaling,

Erin Austin:

whatever that looks like.

Erin Austin:

I mean, making sure that we're starting from the right place.

Erin Austin:

Do you wanna scale an hour?

Erin Austin:

You know, model, like, oh, you know, and so, uh, making sure we're, we're

Erin Austin:

starting in the right spot of four.

Erin Austin:

We layer what could just make something more complicated, more

Erin Austin:

burdensome, and less profitable.

Erin Austin:

If we don't, we don't have the right pieces in place.

Erin Austin:

So what trends are you seeing, uh, in 2022 and beyond in that expert space?

Patty Block:

One trend that I've noticed over the last probably five or six

Patty Block:

months is a bit of a pullback, meaning I think there's so much fear of recession

Patty Block:

inflation, of finding the right staff, whether they're contractors or employees.

Patty Block:

Or freelancers.

Patty Block:

It is very difficult to find people who will stick around.

Patty Block:

You can find people, but not necessarily people who will stay, and that is a very

Patty Block:

expensive problem for small businesses.

Patty Block:

So I've seen a pullback in terms of, it's a little bit of a spiral effect.

Patty Block:

If I scale back my business a little bit, I don't take as many clients.

Patty Block:

That means I don't need to have staff.

Patty Block:

That means I'll bring in less revenue, but I'll ride this out even though my

Patty Block:

expenses are going up and there's a recession that we're headed toward.

Patty Block:

I'll ride this out and if I can't ride it out, I'll go back and get a job.

Patty Block:

Right now, we do have that fallback, but to me that is such defeatist thinking, and

Patty Block:

I understand the financial pressures, but we also have a lot of emotional pressures

Patty Block:

as women because there are very few women that don't have other people relying on.

Patty Block:

Whether it's your staff, your parents, your grandparents, your kids, your brother

Patty Block:

and sister, we all have people relying on us and we don't wanna let people down.

Patty Block:

So because of that, that defeatist attitude of I'll ride this out and just

Patty Block:

kind of hold my breath until I get to the next phase, really works against you and.

Patty Block:

While we don't wanna go to the opposite extreme of more and more clients, more

Patty Block:

and more projects, we do wanna find that right balance where you are bringing in

Patty Block:

revenue at levels that do sustain you, that do account for inflationary prices.

Patty Block:

And one of the things I'll mention about that is when you are stuck

Patty Block:

in a particular market, Then these feelings are even worse.

Patty Block:

If you don't have people who understand your value and are willing to pay you at

Patty Block:

the level that you think is appropriate, then you may be in the wrong market.

Erin Austin:

By market you mean the, the clients that you're serving, Okay.

Erin Austin:

Mm-hmm.

Patty Block:

And because of that, that really strikes fear into people, right?

Patty Block:

Because, oh my goodness.

Patty Block:

How do, It's like starting all.

Patty Block:

How do I find my ideal buyer and how do I even get my foot in the door?

Patty Block:

And that is exactly what I hear from my buyers, my clients.

Patty Block:

And it is what I teach.

Patty Block:

And the reason is because it's such a common dynamic that we find ourselves

Patty Block:

in a market that doesn't appreciate.

Patty Block:

And we know there are other markets out there, but we don't know how

Patty Block:

to approach them and we don't know how to find those other buyers.

Patty Block:

And that is part of what I teach.

Patty Block:

So that's what I would caution in terms of trends that I'm seeing.

Patty Block:

I would caution your listeners to think differently if you

Patty Block:

can, that just writing it.

Patty Block:

Is not gonna get you where you want to go, and in fact, it's gonna delay

Patty Block:

you getting where you want to go.

Erin Austin:

Right.

Erin Austin:

That that is great advice.

Erin Austin:

So does that surprise you at all, or is that kind of a sign of the times?

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

Mm-hmm.

Patty Block:

It doesn't surprise me.

Patty Block:

I think it is a sign of the times.

Patty Block:

I think it's true regardless of your gender, but I also think

Patty Block:

for women we tend to be risk averse and this feels very risky.

Patty Block:

So that's the other piece that fits in here, that we wanna be safe, we wanna

Patty Block:

stay in a market, we know where people know us, even if that might not be

Patty Block:

the best situation for our business.

Erin Austin:

right.

Erin Austin:

Well, before we wrap up, I have a couple of questions I wanna, ask you.

Erin Austin:

One is, you know, this is a very meta podcast.

Erin Austin:

As I mentioned you, I'm a female founder, uh, who is the, uh, founder

Erin Austin:

for an expertise based business that I am building to hopefully sell some day.

Erin Austin:

And you are the founder of an expertise based business.

Erin Austin:

So my question for you is, are you building your business so you

Erin Austin:

may be able to sell it someday?

Patty Block:

Yes, but one of the distinctions that I make is I'm really

Patty Block:

not interested in scaling my business.

Patty Block:

I love the people I serve and I love the, the way that I'm able to serve

Patty Block:

them, and I don't wanna lose that.

Patty Block:

So, and I will say that scaling is often not the goal for most of my clients.

Patty Block:

And what I do want to do is generate more revenue.

Patty Block:

I want more income and I wanna make sure that I can be independent

Patty Block:

for the rest of my life.

Patty Block:

That's very important to me.

Patty Block:

I'm single.

Patty Block:

I have been a single mom of three kids since my youngest was

Patty Block:

about two, and he just turned 30.

Patty Block:

So I've raised my kids, gotten them all through school, college, grad school,

Patty Block:

helped them launch their careers, and now they're all three business owners.

Patty Block:

And they help me in my company and I help them with their companies.

Patty Block:

So I wanna remain independent.

Patty Block:

I want to at some point sell my company.

Patty Block:

I have developed intellectual property as you and I have talked

Patty Block:

about before, and I understand the importance and the value of that.

Patty Block:

And if there's an opportunity for me to sell my company in the future,

Patty Block:

I would be thrilled to do that.

Patty Block:

But I also love what I do and take so much joy in the work that I do.

Patty Block:

I can't imagine not doing.

Erin Austin:

Yeah, yeah.

Erin Austin:

You know, uh, that, that's true.

Erin Austin:

I, I speak to a lot of women who look at their businesses that way, and

Erin Austin:

we should, if we are successful, we have, we have a business doing what

Erin Austin:

we love, serving clients that we love.

Erin Austin:

And so, and sometimes it can feel like a betrayal to even think about selling

Erin Austin:

that business, but I like to also think.

Erin Austin:

There may be another chapter like there, you know, there's always another challenge

Erin Austin:

that we may wanna conquer, and so we wanna make sure that we're prepared for that.

Erin Austin:

So if a new challenge, you know, catches our eye that this is an asset that we

Erin Austin:

can sell, that could help fund that next challenge, that next chapter.

Erin Austin:

So we don't wanna kind of be put blinders to the idea.

Erin Austin:

Of selling a business just cuz we can't imagine it or because it feels

Erin Austin:

like a betrayal to our clients.

Erin Austin:

Um, but we wanna make sure we're building those assets I mean you said you're not

Erin Austin:

interested in scaling, but at the end of the day, you know, increasing revenue

Erin Austin:

while increasing profit is scaling.

Erin Austin:

And I think that's what you said you wanted to do.

Erin Austin:

So

Patty Block:

That is true.

Patty Block:

I think the distinction is I don't necessarily wanna get bigger.

Erin Austin:

Yeah.

Erin Austin:

Ok.

Erin Austin:

Gotcha.

Patty Block:

Yeah.

Patty Block:

I don't want to have a situation where I'm not in contact with my clients.

Erin Austin:

Yes.

Erin Austin:

Yes.

Erin Austin:

That makes sense.

Erin Austin:

Makes sense.

Erin Austin:

Yes.

Erin Austin:

So, one of the reasons that I started, think Beyond IP and working with

Erin Austin:

female founders is cuz I wanna work to build a more equitable economy.

Erin Austin:

And so, is there a organization or a person who you admire who

Erin Austin:

is helping, you know, kind of bring more equity to our society

Patty Block:

I have been a longtime donor to an organization called Girls Inc.

Patty Block:

It's a national organization with local chapters, and they are teaching young

Patty Block:

girls and young women to really step into their power and to find the language

Patty Block:

that they need so they can speak up.

Patty Block:

And I think that is so important.

Patty Block:

It ties directly into my mission of empowering women and I

Patty Block:

think starting with girls is

Patty Block:

so smart.

Patty Block:

And there are so many issues that that cause problems for young

Patty Block:

girls, I think for all young people.

Patty Block:

But Girls Inc is an organization that I have supported for many years and

Patty Block:

I really believe in the work they do.

Erin Austin:

That's fantastic.

Erin Austin:

Thank you for sharing that.

Erin Austin:

We will absolutely make sure that is in the show notes.

Erin Austin:

So we're comp, Well first of all, do you have an offer that

Erin Austin:

you'd like to share with the.

Patty Block:

I do, I would love to invite your audience to take

Patty Block:

a quiz that I've developed.

Patty Block:

It's my revenue roadblocks, and it's designed to help you understand what might

Patty Block:

be in your way when it comes to changing your pricing or maybe raising your prices.

Patty Block:

And, when you take the quiz, you get a report that will help you understand

Patty Block:

what some of those limiting beliefs are that you may be struggling with, and the

Patty Block:

first step you can take to address that.

Patty Block:

So if you go to my website@theblockgroup.net,

Patty Block:

the block group.net.

Patty Block:

You'll see a link to the quiz, My Revenue Roadblocks, and I really would encourage

Patty Block:

you to take that and, uh, see what you learn from it, because the first

Patty Block:

step to any change is to become aware.

Erin Austin:

Fantastic.

Erin Austin:

Thank you for that.

Erin Austin:

So you mentioned the Block group.net website.

Erin Austin:

Where else can people find you?

Patty Block:

on LinkedIn and it's Patty with a y.

Patty Block:

Patty Block and I love connecting with people on LinkedIn, and when you reach out

Patty Block:

to me, please mention this interview so I can connect the dots and I will be very

Patty Block:

happy and honored to connect with you.

Erin Austin:

Well, this has been wonderful, Patty.

Erin Austin:

Thank you so much for being with us and sharing your wisdom and, uh,

Erin Austin:

and this is a lot of great, great information for, for the audience.

Erin Austin:

So thank you again.

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Erin Austin

Meet Erin Austin, a Harvard Law alum with over 25 years of copyright and contracts experience. As the go-to advisor for professionals with corporate clients, Erin empowers entrepreneurs to be their own advocates, standing out for her commitment to transforming expertise into empires through the creation, protection and leveraging of intellectual property assets. Explore her blend of legal expertise and entrepreneurial insight on ThinkBeyondIP.com and the "Hourly to Exit" podcast. Off the clock, you'll find Erin in the great outdoors or connecting with business coaches to elevate 6-figure consultants into 7-figure powerhouses.