Episode 104
E104: Build a Stronger Business Through Brand Clarity with Suzanne Tulien
In this episode of Scaling Expertise, I’m sitting down with Suzanne Tulien, founder of Brand Ascension and a self-proclaimed "brand clarity expert." With a deep passion for helping professionals uncover and articulate their unique value, Suzanne shares how she empowers businesses and solopreneurs to harness the power of authentic branding to stand out and scale.
Key Takeaways from the Episode:
- Branding vs. Marketing: Branding is about defining how others perceive you, while marketing is how you communicate that brand. Without a clear brand, what are you marketing?
- Personal vs. Business Brand: For small businesses, personal and business branding often overlap. Suzanne explains how to align your unique traits with your business values.
- The Power of Niching: Scaling isn’t about doing more—it’s about focusing on a niche. The more specific you are, the bigger your opportunities become.
Want to dive deeper?
Check out Suzanne’s Personal Brand Presence course at personalbrandpresence.com or learn more about her work at brandascension.com.
I loved this conversation and hope it inspires you to define your brand and scale with clarity!
More About Our Guest:
For 30 years, Suzanne has been inspiring and driving personal & organizational brand alignment through internal brand definition, stakeholder engagement, process & customer service alignment.
Suzanne is co-pioneer of the proven, step-by-step, Brand DNA methodology & transports her clients & audiences into a refreshingly brand-conscious, authentic and inspiring way of being.
As co-author of Brand DNA: Uncover Your Unique Genetic Code for Competitive Advantage, & author of Personal Brand Clarity, she is helping to pave the ‘alignment highway’ for business growth through conscious, internal brand definition and coherence. As a dynamic, high-energy speaker and certified trainer in accelerated learning methodologies, Suzanne is leading business growth with advocacy, intention, engagement & purpose.
Connect with Our Guest:
Charity: Sue's Gift
Connect with Erin to learn how to Turn Your Expertise into Scalable Recurring Revenue.
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/
Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos
Music credit: Paphos by Mountaineer
A Team Dklutr production
Transcript
Hello everyone.
Speaker:Welcome back to the Scaling Expertise Podcast.
Speaker:Thank you for joining me for another fantastic episode where we talk
Speaker:about scaling our expertise and talk about other experts who have.
Speaker:Both scale their business and can help you scale your business.
Speaker:So this week I am joined by Suzanne Tuleen with Brand
Speaker:Ascension to talk about branding.
Speaker:And so very excited to dig into the conversation.
Speaker:But before we get going with that, Suzanne, would you please
Speaker:introduce yourself to the audience?
Speaker:Hi, everyone.
Speaker:I'm Suzanne to lean just like Aaron says correctly to lean.
Speaker:I am what I call a brand clarity expert.
Speaker:And that means that I help companies identify and define who they are as
Speaker:a brand so that they can identify that value position, walk the talk
Speaker:and deliver on their promise to become who they want to be known for.
Speaker:That is fantastic.
Speaker:before we started recording, we talked about personal brand
Speaker:versus the business's brand.
Speaker:And so I'd love to have you explain the difference and why it's important.
Speaker:Well, maybe we should first talk about what branding is, know, so I can explain
Speaker:the difference between the corporate brand and then the personal brand, but.
Speaker:So branding is different than marketing.
Speaker:A lot of people think it's the same thing.
Speaker:So I always say you market a brand, right?
Speaker:So if you're out there marketing something you have not yet fully
Speaker:identified and define, meaning your then the question becomes, what are you
Speaker:marketing, So marketing and branding are two separate functions, so a
Speaker:brand is just a set of perceptions.
Speaker:And all of us already have a brand, whether we're conscious of it or not.
Speaker:the question becomes is, are you in control of it?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So would we equate
Speaker:a brand to like a reputation?
Speaker:yes, because your reputation is a set of perceptions that I think I know about you,
Speaker:it's how, we interact, or if I were to purchase a service or product from you,
Speaker:how that's delivered and how I feel and what my perception is of that experience.
Speaker:So I, as a business owner, can actually define that and take control of that.
Speaker:Or I could be passive in that and let everybody else brand me,
Speaker:right, without being conscious, strategic, and deliberate.
Speaker:So the process of branding, if brand is a perception, the process
Speaker:of branding is actually assigning meaning to that set of perceptions.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So we're going to name the perceptions we want others to have of us.
Speaker:That's the process of branding.
Speaker:It's not logo design.
Speaker:Yeah, I was about to say that.
Speaker:A lot of times people, conflate brands and logos or their trademark.
Speaker:And they're all, you know, but, I'm not, and people think I'm anti trademark.
Speaker:I'm not.
Speaker:But they are definitely different things.
Speaker:your
Speaker:logo is that graphic symbol that over time, becomes the trigger, the visual
Speaker:trigger for people to remember how they felt when they worked with you, right?
Speaker:So that's the brand.
Speaker:So it's the trigger, the symbolic trigger that makes us think about the brand.
Speaker:So what do you want that trigger to mean,
Speaker:That's what I help my clients do.
Speaker:Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So with that foundation, personal brand, because mostly this
Speaker:audience is, small businesses.
Speaker:So founder, operator and, or, part of a small group of consultants or coaches
Speaker:or facilitators who work together.
Speaker:And so I think they probably have a pretty hard time separating.
Speaker:their personal brand from their corporate brand.
Speaker:So let's talk about that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So when I brand an organization, I'm branding an entity, and this is
Speaker:a collective entity that together serves the public, serves the market,
Speaker:So that's a much different approach or process in focus and implementation at
Speaker:the internal level, because it's got to be infused and fed through the entire
Speaker:organization so that they're all walking the talk and delivering on their promise.
Speaker:So when I'm working with a solo professional, a subject matter expert
Speaker:in their field, and they are selling their intellectual property or they're
Speaker:selling themselves really to do some work, they are like the only ones or
Speaker:one of two or one of a small group of people, Practitioners, brokers,
Speaker:agents, those types of people.
Speaker:Then they have to actually think about how they're showing up and they have
Speaker:total control over themselves and who they want to become known for.
Speaker:So we begin this process of the brand DNA or what I call a personal brand
Speaker:presence DNA is the unpacking of the attributes that make them who they are.
Speaker:And then once we identify, we define those attributes and
Speaker:then we begin to align them.
Speaker:More, consciously to those attributes so that they are delivering more and
Speaker:more in alignment with those attributes.
Speaker:So our vernacular might change our narrative changes a little bit
Speaker:because we're more in tune because we've identified and defined it and
Speaker:we've given it meaning for ourselves.
Speaker:And this doesn't mean that we're creating some character outside of ourselves.
Speaker:It's only the authentic, fleshing out of those attributes that you
Speaker:really, truly want to be known for.
Speaker:And it's the assignment of meeting of me, right?
Speaker:I am the brand.
Speaker:So what is Suzanne Tulene, right?
Speaker:it's that question.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So that's the difference between.
Speaker:That personal brand, which is a little bit broader because it's more than
Speaker:just your job, it's how you show up in your family, with your friends, out in
Speaker:the community, how you deal with your own financial issues, how you deal
Speaker:with your own self care and wellness and well being, it's all of that.
Speaker:It's big.
Speaker:it made me think of culture, like an organization's culture, but it's Even
Speaker:like we even as individuals, we kind of think of that as a group activity
Speaker:to culture, but you can have just your own culture and how people think about
Speaker:the way you move through the world.
Speaker:I really like that.
Speaker:you're
Speaker:me myself and I that's a little mini culture in your brain.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:The clearer you are in who you are, the more you're able to co create experiences
Speaker:the way you want them to show up.
Speaker:Because you're more conscious, strategic, and deliberate at doing so.
Speaker:Otherwise, we are, I talk a lot about this in my workshops, if we're not in control
Speaker:of our own brand, then we're vulnerable to those external, challenges, stimulations,
Speaker:those things outside of ourselves that keep us from going inward, right?
Speaker:So we are impacted externally so much so that we're no longer internally
Speaker:driven until we get more clear and more conscious, strategic and deliberate.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, cause it can be, you know, your North star, not just
Speaker:externally, but also internally.
Speaker:when you make decisions about who to work with, when you're clear on your
Speaker:brand, it's almost like two sides of the coin of your niche and your brand
Speaker:because they both kind of have to work together and it helps you make
Speaker:decisions about, who you work for, how you work, what you're going to charge.
Speaker:All those things are all tied up in that, I think.
Speaker:You're spot on, Erin.
Speaker:You're right on it because really start discerning differently when you are clear.
Speaker:You
Speaker:know what's on brand for you or off brand for you, right?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And so many, experts, professionals have a problem with this.
Speaker:It's very hard.
Speaker:I mean, I have good friends who, you know, this is really lawyers, honestly, I'll
Speaker:just make that clear and just disclose that that's lawyers that they will not.
Speaker:turn away a client.
Speaker:Like if someone wants something that they can do, they will do it.
Speaker:Like, why would you like, cause you're all over the place and you're just, you
Speaker:know, law offices up, what does that mean?
Speaker:And so great, you know, you have some referrals, I'm happy, but whenever they're
Speaker:struggling with business development, well, it's because you're just.
Speaker:A lawyer for lack of a better, you know, and, it's a tough one though.
Speaker:And I'm sure lawyers aren't the only ones who do this.
Speaker:it takes a little bit of bravery, frankly, to,
Speaker:I would say, well, when you go and do that and you take everything you can
Speaker:possibly do, you dilute your brand.
Speaker:So you're really hurting the perceptions others have of
Speaker:you because they're not clear.
Speaker:It's fuzzy, it's gray.
Speaker:They don't understand you're doing all these different things.
Speaker:So the more empowering thing to do is get crystal clear and, refuse or don't
Speaker:take or refer people that come to you for things that you kind of dabble in, but
Speaker:aren't an expert, but the more you choose.
Speaker:To stay in your lane and stay in your specific area of expertise, the more you
Speaker:become known for that and the more you co create that experience for yourself.
Speaker:It works that way.
Speaker:it's amazing how it works that way, but you have to trust the process.
Speaker:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker:And it might be a process not everyone you know comes out of the womb so
Speaker:to speak and knows exactly who we're talking to and how you know, and for
Speaker:me it is absolutely been a process Talking about intellectual capital and
Speaker:everyone's eyes glossed over like what?
Speaker:And then, okay, who am I talking to?
Speaker:What do they care about?
Speaker:Let's start using, the language that they use, talk about the things
Speaker:that they care about, not the things that I care about, which I think
Speaker:they should, but I think about it a little bit differently than I do.
Speaker:so tell me how you help clients.
Speaker:I mean, this is the scaling expertise podcast, of course.
Speaker:So we want to talk about.
Speaker:Like how you work with your clients to help them scale.
Speaker:I would say that, more clear you are, the more targeted your market
Speaker:is, the more open their ears become.
Speaker:Because they're hearing relevancy, as to what you can solve their problem,
Speaker:or how you can solve their problem.
Speaker:niching is really, people think that, you gotta do more things in order to
Speaker:scale, but seriously, the more you niche, the bigger your opportunities
Speaker:become, the more expertise you can deliver on and become known for that.
Speaker:Because you're just more consistent in showing up in a certain area of expertise,
Speaker:more people get it, more people want it, more people realize they need it.
Speaker:it's just that way.
Speaker:So that's a unique way of thinking about scaling, rather than thinking I'm going
Speaker:to add this up additional service to my portfolio of services, I'm going to stay
Speaker:in my lane and really begin to tout.
Speaker:What I can do in this lane,
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:100 percent deeper.
Speaker:And, when I run into, consultants who don't have a niche, and they're using
Speaker:third party materials, you know, maybe their coach and they went They have an ICF
Speaker:certification or some other certification and they work with whoever needs there.
Speaker:And then they realize they don't have anything original.
Speaker:And they think like, how do I even get started?
Speaker:Well, know, if you have a niche, you know, we have all these general materials about
Speaker:how to be a coach, how to do leadership, how to do management consulting, but
Speaker:when you have a niche and you really understand again, their language, their
Speaker:specific needs, you start to drill down.
Speaker:on materials that are specific to them.
Speaker:That's where the original material, that's where your brand comes in.
Speaker:That's where, you having intellectual property that you can
Speaker:protect and scale with comes in.
Speaker:So it all is one of the same kind of circle there.
Speaker:just for quick example for that, I have a client, a coaching client who is a
Speaker:leadership like you're talking about.
Speaker:And she has A lot of tools.
Speaker:She's been certified in so many different ways that she can actually approach and
Speaker:deliver her services to our clients.
Speaker:And when she went through my program just recently, we drilled down to a
Speaker:key point that is core to who she is.
Speaker:Which is the simple word called joy.
Speaker:And so
Speaker:what she's doing is she's grabbing a hold of that word.
Speaker:And we're really, she's wanting to emphasize her ability to
Speaker:bring joy back into leadership.
Speaker:Oh, wonderful.
Speaker:And so we're tapping into these people that are sensing
Speaker:leadership is becoming such a pain.
Speaker:Or it's becoming so frustrating or cumbersome or heavy, right?
Speaker:That they can't, they don't have joy in it anymore.
Speaker:So she's like niched in a niche, she's niched in leadership.
Speaker:And then in that space, we're talking about joy
Speaker:and
Speaker:boy, it's really starting to come together for her.
Speaker:since she's able to use some new vernacular now and her stories and
Speaker:the way she delivers her stuff.
Speaker:It's really starting to attract some attention and then she's
Speaker:just finished my program.
Speaker:So we're just now really putting it out there.
Speaker:That's fantastic.
Speaker:Well, that leads me to my next question, which is what pains are your
Speaker:clients feeling when they go, Oh my gosh, I need to reach out to Suzanne.
Speaker:Like what's happening in their businesses when they realize they need help?
Speaker:Yeah, that's a
Speaker:great question.
Speaker:mostly.
Speaker:They know that they are an expert in what it is that they do, they can't seem
Speaker:to articulate it in a way that others are feeling that it's, non commoditized,
Speaker:Lawyers are seemingly commoditized, insurance brokers are commoditized,
Speaker:you know, you get this sense of, real estate agents, you know, how are they
Speaker:different, it's that pain of, feeling like you're a commodity in a sea of other
Speaker:competitors within your own market coaches consultants And that sort of thing.
Speaker:That's one of the biggest pains that they have and also Pricing is
Speaker:another pricing what they're worth
Speaker:and
Speaker:attracting those clients that are willing to pay for that when you've got the street
Speaker:cred and the differentiation The, proven capacity to do so that those two are the
Speaker:most probably prominent things that people come to me for they know that the best
Speaker:kept secret in their industry, and they don't know how to get that out there.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:being undifferentiated is the race to the bottom.
Speaker:Talk about it is not being able to price what you're worth and, everything.
Speaker:all right, well, let's turn to your business now.
Speaker:And so how have you built scale into your business?
Speaker:Well, I am a speaker and trainer.
Speaker:I actually trained speaker brands.
Speaker:So I love getting myself out there and talk about scaling.
Speaker:I'm not talking to.
Speaker:in a networking environment, I'm talking to one or two or three people
Speaker:at a time, maybe in a small circle.
Speaker:But when I'm on big stages, I'm talking to 500 1000 people at a time.
Speaker:So that's one of the best ways to scale your expertise and become known
Speaker:as that industry expert on stage.
Speaker:So if you're not speaking now, you should consider it for sure.
Speaker:Even if it's just hosting workshops, you You know, doing, smaller work,
Speaker:two hour workshops, and then after that they can buy more, so to speak.
Speaker:so speaking is definitely one thing I like to promote, and I get most of my coaching
Speaker:clients into speaking, or training.
Speaker:I'm a certified trainer, so I create, what I call trainer minded speakers, so
Speaker:that they're using trainer techniques into their speaking delivery.
Speaker:And that's what guarantees and ensures that people are getting the
Speaker:information that's being infused into their hearts and minds.
Speaker:So they did take action.
Speaker:So important.
Speaker:I was, invited to speak to a group of the facilitators and I'm not a
Speaker:facilitator and the process that I went through with them, you know, it's
Speaker:like, wow, this is completely different than, know, I had done before, I get
Speaker:up and I say my spiel and whatever.
Speaker:And like, wow, what a difference it is when you know how to
Speaker:be trainer slash facilitator.
Speaker:It is a very different experience.
Speaker:And so I have tons of respect for that.
Speaker:And so they say that, you know, the more you speak, the more you speak.
Speaker:And it's just getting.
Speaker:little by little the little bit more than a little bit more because people
Speaker:who see you speak want you to speak at their event and then they have no somebody
Speaker:and then they have you speak at their and gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker:So, that's a great way to scale.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And I have a few things that I do.
Speaker:Oh, please.
Speaker:I've written three books.
Speaker:There's two right there, but scaling through being author and really
Speaker:documenting your area of expertise is key.
Speaker:You've probably talked about that in terms of scaling before, but,
Speaker:it's a great, credential card.
Speaker:you don't make a ton of money on books unless you're like, assigned,
Speaker:author from major publishing house, but I tell you what, people are
Speaker:interested after they hear you speak after 20 minutes or so, 30 minutes.
Speaker:To our workshop and they want your information and then they want to
Speaker:buy it for their friends or their colleagues and that sort of thing.
Speaker:So that's a great way to get your information out there.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So
Speaker:you have not used the words intellectual property, but everything
Speaker:that you have mentioned that you use to scale your business.
Speaker:Is all intellectual property, your speeches, your workshops, your book,
Speaker:your training materials, all of these things are intellectual property.
Speaker:And so how do you think about it explicitly as intellectual property?
Speaker:You just think about it as just getting my expertise out there.
Speaker:Like I love to hear about how non lawyers think about their intellectual property.
Speaker:No, I'm actually very protective of my intellectual property
Speaker:because That's how I make a living,
Speaker:So that, I charge hourly for consultations and coaching sessions,
Speaker:I'm not really delivering them anything other than conversation ideas and being
Speaker:a thought partner for these people.
Speaker:So, I have to be able to, charge for that qualitative uniquely
Speaker:experienced conversation
Speaker:for
Speaker:them to glean from and learn from and take it, an action it basically
Speaker:from my books are definitely I know copyrighted because they're
Speaker:copyrighted also have an online course.
Speaker:For both the business brand DNA program as well as the
Speaker:personal brand Clarity program.
Speaker:So that's, you know, protect that as well as I can possibly protect it.
Speaker:And I actually don't give anybody my slides.
Speaker:No, that's how protective I am.
Speaker:I spend hours in designing my programs and I'm happy to hand out a worksheet.
Speaker:for the workshop,
Speaker:but I
Speaker:never get my slides out.
Speaker:it's my audience's job to pay attention, right?
Speaker:And I help them pay attention through my techniques and my delivery.
Speaker:But they get that worksheet for a reason.
Speaker:That's what they get to take home.
Speaker:And take any notes that they want, but nobody gets my stuff.
Speaker:Yeah, that is, I get that question a lot from people who they have clients
Speaker:who want to record them and have all the materials and be able to do
Speaker:whatever they want to with them, frankly, put them on an intranet or.
Speaker:and a lot of people feel, hesitant to say no, I mean, you have a corporate client.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They do.
Speaker:And, but it's really important that we continue to control those materials,
Speaker:and that if they want to continue to use and they need to come back to
Speaker:you and for you to get paid for that.
Speaker:So that is a big part of what I help my clients with as well.
Speaker:So for you, right.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, hopefully people, you know, big part of my job is
Speaker:education, frankly, because most people, I am being paid for my time.
Speaker:So what else can I expect?
Speaker:Well, a lot more because you created this intellectual property that is yours.
Speaker:That is an asset.
Speaker:if you take someone on Taxi, right?
Speaker:You'd expect to own the taxi afterwards.
Speaker:Like you just get your ride and then you pay and get out.
Speaker:That's why car.
Speaker:So it's the same thing with our intellectual property.
Speaker:It's just as real.
Speaker:It's a real asset.
Speaker:it's real.
Speaker:And so making sure we are protecting it the same way we would protect.
Speaker:Physical assets we can hold in our hands.
Speaker:So
Speaker:what amazes me a lot is that I can sell my book for 20 bucks on Amazon.
Speaker:Let's just say, people will pay in the thousands to get me to come out
Speaker:and teach what's in the book, right?
Speaker:It's like, really, I can only sell my book for 20 bucks.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:It's all in that IP.
Speaker:So you did mention your workshops.
Speaker:Tell me, was there something new happening?
Speaker:Anything that where you'd like to steer the audience to find out
Speaker:more about you or to work with you?
Speaker:Well, I think the most exciting thing for the solo professional,
Speaker:the subject matter expert in who is the brand of their business.
Speaker:the best thing for them to do and look at is probably the online course you
Speaker:can do a live coaching package attached to that or just the course itself.
Speaker:And it's very reasonable and it's something that will really,
Speaker:I think, inspire them to get to know themselves even better.
Speaker:And know, what they can step into and really become more of
Speaker:so that people recognize and create the correct perceptions
Speaker:that they want to be known for.
Speaker:So it's called, personalbrandpresence.
Speaker:com is where they can go check out the landing page and read a bit more about it.
Speaker:But, the coaching package is great because I like to coach in between the
Speaker:modules as they get through the module.
Speaker:So we're sure that they're fleshing out the exercises correctly and
Speaker:can move to the next one with them.
Speaker:The most honed outputs possible and they get crystal crystal clear and have a
Speaker:lot of aha moments and they get super excited about moving forward and with
Speaker:this new kind of consciousness of who they are and what they can bring to the
Speaker:table that creates competitive advantage.
Speaker:Oh, fantastic.
Speaker:That will be, we'll have that in the show notes.
Speaker:And thank you so much.
Speaker:This has been really wonderful conversation.
Speaker:I know the audience got a lot out of it.
Speaker:everyone, please make sure you check out personal presence.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:Did I get that right?
Speaker:personal brand presence.
Speaker:com the landing page for the, yeah.
Speaker:course.
Speaker:my company's is brand Ascension.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:And again, that will be in the show notes.
Speaker:Thank you again, Suzanne, for joining us.
Speaker:Thank you, Erin.
Speaker:Great to chat with you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
